if more hands are dealt shouldn't the fish be gone real fast?

[NLfool]

twice as many hands dealt. I see lots of fish playing 2 or more tables. Well shouldn't they be going broke 2x as fast and for those that play 2 table 4x+ faster? Lets see there is heads up cap, all major sites have low buy in NL instead of large ones it just gets me thinking what else the sites do to keep the fish afloat? The fish (majority) is what is going to keep the site alive. If they last longer then the sharks stay around and more money gets recirculated and then taken off the table. It's a must for them keep the fish alive. Perhaps even important enough to do what people say they wouldn't do. I'm not great but instead of being up 15k I seriously believe I should be in 25-30k mark if not for some really oddball stuff happening over and over.

[Homer]

Everyone knows that most sites use action flops to help the fish stay afloat.

-- Homer

[lorinda]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

There is a search function on this site, you can have plenty of fun reading the five million other posts identical to this one.

If you can't use it very well, there is a big grey thing between your ears, try using that to work out why fish come back.

Lori

[Glenn]

"I'm not great but instead of being up 15k I seriously believe I should be in 25-30k mark if not for some"

I believe that I should receive oral sex whenever I request it.

[thylacine]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone knows that most sites use action flops to help the fish stay afloat.

[/ QUOTE ]

What exactly are you saying?

[OffTilt]

Look at a casino, in essence every single one of them is a fish. Everyone in there is trying to beat the odds, all lose over the long run. Do you they quit after losing a set amount of money and never come back? Have all the fish gone broke and left the casino forever? No, they keep coming back and back. These people are gamblers, periodic reinforcement keeps them coming back. They might have 5 losing sessions in a row, but they can't forget that last time they got hot cards and won a bundle.

Don't think fish can't win big sometimes no matter how bad they are. When I was in Vegas I was at a table with a guy who only folded a total 5 times in 6 hours. At one point he won 16 out of 17 hands in a row in a 10 handed game. He called every single bet down and consistently pulled miracles on the river. He couldn't lose.

The edge for a skilled player in limit Holdem is small enough that the fish will win enough occasionally to keep them playing, same as slots and roulette.

If you truly believe you'd be up 25-30k if not for "action flops" and the like then you should be thanking the rigged software. Without it you'd be up 30k this year, but all the fish would be gone. Instead you can win 15k every single year.

Action flops would be VERY EASY to expose. Simply take 500 flops and do statistical analysis. If there is a preponderance of high cards you can be 99% sure the site is rigged. I haven't done this analysis, but if you're suspicious why not do it? Ask anyone who has taken a statistics course how to.

OffTilt

------------------------------------------
Start winning hundreds at Texas Holdem with Power Holdem+
http://www.online-pokerguide.com

[lorinda]

Thanks OffTilt, I really didn't fancy typing all that for about the 20th time /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Lori

[lorinda]

What exactly are you saying?

What he is saying is that people who blame the software for their own overestimate of their own skill level should just accuse everyone else of cheating them and not engage their brain.
It's much easier and far more fun than facing the truth.

Lori

[NLfool]

yes I've run all the numbers through tracker and everything is within reason. I play NL so when KK vs AA happens set over set happens etc there is little chance for someone to get away from their hand. I've played enough NL in casinos to know KK vs AA and set over set is damn rare and shouldn't be happening ever session online eventhough there are 2x as many hands and I'm playing 3 tables. I've played 28-30 days a month last year from sept to dec 2002. I've seen set over set or KK vs. AA maybe once a month if that. I see it mulitple times daily online. There is no way for me track such occurrences.

[lorinda]

I've played 28-30 days a month last year from sept to dec 2002. I've seen set over set or KK vs. AA maybe once a month if that.

LOL.

You need to play more live poker.

Go to a live tournament and look what happens in the real world, AA vs KK happens in nearly every tournament, and so it should.

Someone at your table will have Aces about once every 25 hands, Someone will have Kings about the same. If you cant work out where this was heading you are beyond help.

So roughly roughly speaking It should happen every 600 hands or so.

A typical dealer deals 36 hands an hour, lets call it 30.

That means it should happen on YOUR TABLE every 20 hours live, yes, every day, every single day.

In a ten table tourney it should happen every 2 hours, thats....EVERY TOURNEY.

Lori

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
yes I've run all the numbers through tracker and everything is within reason. I play NL so when KK vs AA happens set over set happens etc there is little chance for someone to get away from their hand. I've played enough NL in casinos to know KK vs AA and set over set is damn rare and shouldn't be happening ever session online eventhough there are 2x as many hands and I'm playing 3 tables. I've played 28-30 days a month last year from sept to dec 2002. I've seen set over set or KK vs. AA maybe once a month if that. I see it mulitple times daily online. There is no way for me track such occurrences.

[/ QUOTE ]

What you are not accounting for are how many morre poor players see flops, turns and rivers when they are behind. Also just because you did not see these occurances at B&M tables doesn't mean they did not happen. It only means they did not happen at your table while you were playing. You should consider the probabilities of all these occurances brfore pronouncing your conclusive (sic) evidence.

If I may ask since the online rooms are crooked why do you play? Oh yeah I forgot you are winning, pretty strange huh? Additionallly you might be a losing player and just be on a roll, please do get back to us if you start showing a negative EV. We can then explain your losses due to you being blacklisted by the online poker rooms.

[NLfool]

620 to 1 according to my math but I'm not a math wiz so maybe a waterloo graduate hanging around here can give us the exact stats for that and for set vs. set. In a casino that works out to be about one every 22 hours of live play for the slow dealers and slow players at NL games in california. Well I saw it at 3 times in the duration of the 500 raked hands I had to play to clear a bonus (not including twice seeing KK vs. QQ) . The only televised hand of KK vs. AA was scotty vs. robert. I did not seee any others on the reports or on TV.

[thylacine]

My rough calculation says that AA vs KK will happen 3 times in 500 hands with probability about 4%

Hardly remarkable, especially if it is just part of a longer sequence of hands.

[eugeneel]

u see set vs set once a month? cmon!! 10 people at a table. Each player has a 5.9% chance of being dealt a pocket pair. so 2 chances of 2 people having them at once is something like 20-25% (not sure how to calculate that exactly) And then the chance of both people flopping sets is about 1/64 (11.8% of each one catching a set) this means tthat the total % of times this should happen is (1/64)/.25 which is 1/256 so if ur playing 8 hours a day with an avg of 35h/hr you should see set vs set ONCE A DAY on avg.

[OffTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
yes I've run all the numbers through tracker and everything is within reason. I play NL so when KK vs AA happens set over set happens etc there is little chance for someone to get away from their hand. I've played enough NL in casinos to know KK vs AA and set over set is damn rare and shouldn't be happening ever session online eventhough there are 2x as many hands and I'm playing 3 tables. I've played 28-30 days a month last year from sept to dec 2002. I've seen set over set or KK vs. AA maybe once a month if that. I see it mulitple times daily online. There is no way for me track such occurrences.

[/ QUOTE ]

It will be a bit more difficult but it's certainly possible to track it. See how often it happens over 1000 hours of play. Then do analysis against the expected occurences and you'll see if the site is rigged to a 99% certainty. It will take a few more statistical tests, but it's certainly doable.

OffTilt

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Start winning hundreds at Texas Holdem with Power Holdem+
http://www.online-pokerguide.com

[OffTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
yes I've run all the numbers through tracker and everything is within reason. I play NL so when KK vs AA happens set over set happens etc there is little chance for someone to get away from their hand. I've played enough NL in casinos to know KK vs AA and set over set is damn rare and shouldn't be happening ever session online eventhough there are 2x as many hands and I'm playing 3 tables. I've played 28-30 days a month last year from sept to dec 2002. I've seen set over set or KK vs. AA maybe once a month if that. I see it mulitple times daily online. There is no way for me track such occurrences.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also why on earth would the casino want to do this? AA vs KK results in one guy losing a lot of money and going out early. The house will rake less money when this happens. If I play you and I have KK against your AA you might clean me out in 1 hand. If we had "regular" cards it might take you 300 hands. Which scenario leads to more money for the house?

OffTilt

------------------------------------------
Start winning hundreds at Texas Holdem with Power Holdem+
http://www.online-pokerguide.com

[MaxPower]

I played online a couple of days ago and within 2 minutes two different people flopped quads. I've never seen that in a live game, and it doesn't mean a damn thing.

Every day of my life I see something I've never seen before. So what?

What you or I see is not important and it doesn't prove anything. Somewhere there is a guy saying, "Gee, I see set over set all the time in live games, but never online".

If you want to believe something is going on, be my guest, but you are not offering up any proof.