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View Full Version : Pokerstars....argh. (Warning: Contains a bad beat and a sob story)


Zhariken
08-28-2003, 05:36 AM
I know I'm new here. Ok, so it's my first post. I know people lament hearing about others complain about "bad beats" and the like. I know that odds exist for a reason, and there is still a chance to lose....but damn!!

I've been trying to learn about Texas Hold'em, reading, studying, watching, etc.

I recently deposited $100 into Pokerstars.

Argh.

I lost a buck or two playing .02/.04 limit, no big deal. Later I came back and won a little back. Then I wanted to get into a $5, 1-table Fixed Limit Hold'em tourney. I signed up..got in after a short wait, then the cards were dealt. I'm not exactly sure how to put into words my thoughts as cards were popping up all over. A glance up, and I realized I joined a game of hi/lo stud. Luckily, only $5, but I still had no idea how to play. I actually won 3 out of the first 4 hands in complete ignorance and random betting. Around level 3 I was the chip leader. As we played, I read about the game, tried to learn, etc. I ended up finishing 5th out of 8, it only paid 3. Hey, I sort of had fun anyway.

I later joined a $5 Fixed Limit, 9 player game. I was woefully bad, finishing last.

There goes 10 bucks.

My crowning achievement came when I joined a $5 1 on 1 NL game. Someone was already waiting, and off we went. I was so happy, actually doing well, playing tight, and at one point up around 2200-800. At this point, I had AK offsuit, and went into the flop with some hope. I got a King on the flop, along with 2 mid level cards, I made a moderate (40-50?)raise, and it was called. The turn? An Ace. My eyes lit up. I bet again, around 120 or so, and it was called. I had him right where I wanted him now... /images/graemlins/frown.gif

The river gave us a 2, and I gave another raise, losing which would leave him with only 200-300 left. Surely he'd call, not having to risk it all. I thought he had a King, maybe 2 pair given the flop.

He raised all-in.

It sort of caught me off guard, and I took some time to think it over...but I was still confident that I had him. If I lost this one, I knew it would put us around even in chips, and would be an emotional blow to me. If I folded now, he'd still gain some chips and put him in a much healthier position. I caught him bluffing a couple times earlier with nothing, so that added to my decision.

I called.

The shock and bewilderment that hit me after realizing I was in that stud hi/lo game couldn't come close to what I felt as he turned over a pair of twos.

A pair...of...twos.

Countless times I've read that two 2s are a slight favorite over the ever-popular a/k in heads up play. But there's no possible way I could have known what it would be like to actually be staring at them. His 2s brought him back even, and probably a bit ahead of me, after that everything seems like a blur.

I was still playing the same as I had been before, but he seemed to get all the hands/draws, and I walked straight into a full house in one hand.

I was down around 300 when he said "good game", to which I sadly replied "not for me :|".

Believe it or not, an all-in and a few good breaks later, we were actually even again!

It just wasn't meant to be though, with overcards on the board, and only holding an above average hand myself, he again went all in, I folded, and 800 more chips were his. After that, it was just a matter of time.

There goes 15 bucks.

Sure, it could've been worse, I could've lost everything I guess.

Don't get me wrong, I realize many, many people lose much, much more in a single hand, but I really was hopeful. I've been consistently doing well playing the highest fixed limit of the 'play money' (200/400), but I realized that's a completely different game (from real money) for the most part. I can go in there with 10BB and come out with 30-50BB in 100-150 hands.

One problem I feel I had with the heads up game, I didn't utilize my chips much at all. I played very passively, and we often traded checks throughout a hand. I realize now that was a vital mistake, but at the time I figured I'd just wait it out, let the blinds slowly eat away at him, and pick up some of his chips along the way on good hands. In reality, I think it just allowed him to hang around long enough for that one hand that brought him back.


I dunno, I guess I'm done crying on the collective shoulder of anyone who was bored/sympathetic/amused enough to read this far. I'd certainly welcome advice, but I don't really think I gave much for anyone to give advice on.

Is PS really the toughest game out there (I know, I know, you're all laughing at me calling an .02/.04 game tough..)? Would I be better served 'learning' in a real-money environment at another place? I dunno, but it's really late, and I should get to bed.

G'night.

Jeffage
08-28-2003, 06:49 AM
"A pair...of...twos."

No offense, but get used to it. This happens at levels as high as 15-30 all the time. From reading your post, it seems like you are just playing different games at random. My advice, get a good poker book and concentrate on low limit hold 'em cash games. Get good at them, then branch out into tournaments and pot limit/nl.

Good luck and welcome,

Jeff

RockLobster
08-28-2003, 08:04 AM
Jeff has some solid advice (as always /images/graemlins/smile.gif), but here's one more... don't post your bad beats here! Send them to me! Only the sickest of the sick are interested in bad beat stories, you know. Like the type of people who slow down when passing an accident scene.

lorinda
08-28-2003, 11:43 AM
Posting bad beat stories is fine if they carry the warning that you put on your title, that way anyone reading the story knows what they are letting themselves in for /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

IMO this is a good post, it describes feelings that we all had when we started (though some won't admit to it).

What's wrong with playing .02/.04?
Rather than being up against people trying to get a million chips by playing like morons, you are actually playing people who will have to spend more money off their credit card if they lose, or were good enough to win a few $$ in a freeroll, so the standard is certainly worth playing against.

From time to time you'll get a richer player showing off who will dump a dollar or two into your game, which is good for you too as it will teach you to deal with aggression.

I don't think it is neccessary to play cash heads up games, because play money heads up opponents can play how they like, from downright silly to properly, you still have to learn how to beat each style of play.

You played the AK fine by the looks of it, after many months or years of play, you will still lose this pot most of the time, although occasionally you will get off the hand using instincts that cannot be learned.
Your bets in the pot seem a little small, but other than that I don't think you did anything wrong.

Try to say good game when you lose, its not easy and we have all been guilty of the occasional tantrum /images/graemlins/wink.gif but it is good for your frame of mind and will help you to feel fine when its your turn to hit a silly river.

The better you are, the more bad beats you will suffer, as it will be you that is leading in the pot and not your opponent.

Personally, I'd stick to your micro limit cash game and the occasional $5 single table.(Perhaps each time you have won $5) You will improve and have fun in that game for some time and will feel when it is right to move up.

Play the 1500 player freeroll tourneys too, they are cheap experience, and, like the heads up play money games will teach you to deal with all kinds of players.

Good Luck

Lori

Simon Diamond
08-28-2003, 12:55 PM
Posting bad beat stories is fine if they carry the warning that you put on your title, that way anyone reading the story knows what they are letting themselves in for

Couldn't agree more with Lorinda - I was wondering if there would be a backlash to this post, and I am glad that there has been none to date.

The only thing I can say is unless you are comfortable in a tournament environment, stick to cash games. It sounds like to me that you don't have huge amounts of money to throw at poker, Lorinda's advice being pretty sound. Micro limits and freeroll tournaments.

We all have to start somewhere - I did and it has been downhill ever since /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Simon

shandrakor
08-28-2003, 03:13 PM
The good: You're taking things slowly. You recognize that you're a fish, and you're starting in very low limits to get comfortable, learn how to win, and then move up from there.

The bad: You're letting loss get to you. If you really want to make even a fun hobby of this game, you're going to develop a thicker skin. You're right when you say that playing for real money, even the .02/.04 tables is a completely different game than the play money tables. As a consequence, you're going to have to UNlearn a number of things that you probably learned at the play money tables.

I've been playing on Stars for eight weeks and two days now. I started with $50, played a mixture of .02/.04 and .05/.1 for a few weeks to get settled in. Overall, I lost pretty hardcore, considering the limits. By a month in, playing pretty casually, I was down to about $25. I'd considered myself a pretty strong player, and I couldn't even beat these tables?

I picked up Sklansky and Malmuth's Hold'em for Advanced Players, and it turned out that Advanced, I was not. Not a good book to start out with, IMHO. Read some stuff online, lurked a few forums, got my head a little straighter. Won back a bit, got cocky, jumped up a limit, and then another in quick succession. Lost it all back again.

The real turning point for me was reading Winning Low Limit Hold'em by Lee Jones. That, plus playing a lot of cards, made S&M's book a lot more accessable to me as well. Combined with a few lucky breaks, I'm now up at .50/1.00, making maybe $2-3/hour, and I plan to stay there for a while both builing a bankroll, and making sure I'm very solid on things before moving up again.

Morals of the story: Play it slow, don't feel bad about losing, and above all, LEARN, LEARN, LEARN, LEARN from your mistakes. Read everything you can, follow the forums, ask advice when you're unsure. Play a lot of poker. Re-read the stuff you've read, and make sure you were doing that while playing. Play a lot more poker.

And so on.

Simon Diamond
08-28-2003, 03:26 PM
Can somebody bookmark this post please - so the next time somebody asks for a definition of a quality post, we have some evidence. Great work for a first post, and very sound advice.

Welcome to the zoo shandrakor - we don't all bite /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Simon

Inthacup
08-28-2003, 03:36 PM
Great advice Shandrakor.

I've been playing on Stars for eight weeks and two days now...I'm now up at .50/1.00, making maybe $2-3/hour, and I plan to stay there for a while both builing a bankroll, and making sure I'm very solid on things before moving up again.


From what I've read here and in the rest of your post, you're light years ahead of most players at that limit. In quality of play, I'm sure, but especially mentally. Once you get a sound game strategy this really becomes the most important thing you have to worry about. Keep it up!

Next step, move to PartyPoker where the games are softer and the players are worse. The transition from .5-1 to $1-2 will much easier there. I've played in and watched friends play in both limits recently and I really can't see a difference in the majority of the tables there.

If you want me to refer you to Party, I've been returning the full $50 for the refer a friend bonus I receive. I've been doing this for new players lately. I know how much this helps a new player build his bankroll and hope it helps you do the same. Just send me a PM or an email and I'll take care of it for you.

shandrakor
08-28-2003, 03:53 PM
That's so amazingly generous. I wish I hadn't already created an account at Party months ago to screw around with free money tables.

Ah, well. c'est la vie.

Homer
08-28-2003, 04:08 PM
That's so amazingly generous. I wish I hadn't already created an account at Party months ago to screw around with free money tables.

If you haven't yet deposited money you can still get a bonus on your first deposit. I'm sure Cup has a bonus code he could give you, and if he doesn't I will give you one.

-- Homer

Zhariken
08-28-2003, 06:13 PM
Thanks for the advice and kind words, it really helps. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I went back to the table today with a clear head, and caught a few good hands (in addition to my same tight play from earlier), went from $1.00(25BB) to $3.22(80.5BB) in around 100 hands. A good win (pocket kings, king on the flop with good action.) brought me to $2.20 or so, and I set my new stop limit at $2, never dropped below it, and once I broke 3, I was ready to take a break (was waiting for the blinds to get around to me, won ~0.60 on my next to last hand.)

I've read Bill Burton's beginner book (The Jones book wasn't in at Borders for my visit, and I didn't want to wait for an online order at the time) front to back once, and I'll be starting on Sklansky/Malmuth's Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players today. Next time I'm in a bookstore I'll try and find the Jones book as well. Can't hurt to read and try to understand from as many different (good) angles as I can.

-A very relieved Zhariken