Requesting help

[thwang99]

I know I'm playing badly, just don't know what. Lost several hundred again today. Got TT about 20 times the past three days, and didn't win with them A SINGLE FOCKING TIME.
Anyways, someone mentioned they saw that I was playing badly. I don't want to publically reveal my UserID, but does someone who plays 3-6 on Party and who's observant want to help me point what I'm doing wrong, maybe someone with PokerTracker? I'll tell you my UserID, of course. I seriously need to stop this bleeding, it seems like no matter what I do (today I SWORE to play TIGHT AS A KNOT), I still lost. I didn't flop a set for hours, and when I finally did I lost, etc... just again and again and again, not winning, while watching fish pile it up around me. I'm sure a lot of this is in my head too. I'd sit down at 3 Party 3/6 tables with $150 each, and be at $70 on each within 30 minutes, move tables, start with $150, go to $87 in 30 minutes, repeat, repeat, repeat, till I'm down $500 again, down, down, down. In the past year I averaged $20 an hour, previous to that averaged $6-$10/hour.

I KNOW I'm playing badly, I just for the life of me can't figure out what... Anyways, I would really appreciate it if someone could have a look at my play, thanks!

- Tony

[thwang99]

Oh, before anyone says this is a normal swing, it's not, I know I'm playing badly, no one can lose this much and not be playing badly... Running bad for a month isn't too long but I'm not just running bad. A month-long losing streak is not being "up" from when you started the month for a month, I'm nowhere near even, I'm just losing, losing, losing at a impossible rate for it just to be "bad luck". I really am starting to get annoyed when people say to keep playing, that it's just bad luck, actually. Losing probably at a rate of 4-6 BB/hour over a month?

- Tony

[goodguy_1]

Stop friggin whining and cryin and take a break..I made a long post to your prior bitch and moan seesion and you didnt even foggin repsond ..so stop friggn crying.
Take a break .,, and then get back in there and show some heart..but stop friigin moping.
Great players better than u and me having losing weeks and even losing months..get over it.
the crybaby routine is getting old.
go ahead and flame.. I dont give it chit.

[Instinct]

Why on earth are you playing 3 tables when you are clearly not beating the game?

Running badly, playing badly and also not knowing much about the game you are playing surely will not help your streak.

I played just one table for a long time until I was confident I was beating the limit and was comfortable playing online.

I'd suggest going back to one table for a while and try and concentrate on the game conditions and the players. Don't try and get all your prior loses back by playing above your limit or by playing too many tables. Instead try and start playing winning poker again ( which it seems like you were doing ) and then make decisions about multiple tables or moving up limits. This will help your game and your confidence.

Instinct

[tiltboy]

Two points, the first of which has already been made but is important enough to repeat: What the heck are you doing playing 3 tables when you are in a slump?

The second point: I would think you of all people would appreciate the value of good statistical data about your play and the play of your opponents. What the heck are you doing playing 3 x $3/6 Party tables WITHOUT pokertracker?

[Homer]

Jesus christ, he's asking for help with his game. If you want the "whining" to stop, why don't you provide some help? Dickhead.

-- Homer

[JDErickson]

This may sound a little strange but I not too long ago was in the same boat as you. I hit a slump and started slowly bleeding away. I tightenend my game and it got worse, I tightened more and it got worse. My $500 bankroll at PP was down to $22. I was ready to quit altogether.

This is what I did. I stopped playing the money tables and went to the depths of hell, the play tables. I experimented with various strategies and found that I had tightened to much. I loosened up a bit and turned myself around. After a week or so, I plunked down another $100 at PP and I am so far up $200 playing with the strategies I developed on the play tables. I figured if I can consistently win at the no foldem play tables it may work at the low limit money tables. SO far it has.

So I would suggest a week break and then rethink your strategies. What were you doing when you were winnning? Don't tighten to much or you choke yourself out.

Jim

[thylacine]

Drop down to lower limits. Play 1 table only and concentrate. Forget about regaining losses in short term. Be humble, regain confidence, and decide when you belong in higher game.

[David]

Quit for a couple days, come back at a lower limit, play no more than 2 tables, only play when you feel good, and for GAWDS sake spend a couple of bucks on Pokertracker!!!!!! I delayed getting it also, but since I got it I wouldn't take ANY amount of money to quit using it. It will not only give you loads of info on your opponents it will give you an unbelievable amount of info on your biggest enemy....YOURSELF! I still have many holes in my game that I am working on, but it has helped me plug the really big holes. I am now a very consistent winner at all levels up to 10/20 online. It also does wonders for your B&M game as you can't help but take the things you learn from it over to your live game. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Homer]

Tony, I have PokerTracker and play Party 3/6. I'll help you out if you want.

-- Homer

[thomastem]

Stop talking about dollars and start talking about bets. If you like baseball think of yourself as a struggling pitcher, concetrate on the mechanics. Forget any deceptive plays and "play by the book" until you see some success. Also like a young pitcher if you struggle at the major league level they send you back to triple A to regain confidence and form. Even Nolan Ryan went through that. All poker players go through it, Mike Caro wrote about having to do it early in his career. Go down a level!

One last thing. I find that laughter helps. Find what evens your temper. You are caring too much right now. Forget any poker during this streak you are starting fresh.

[Adde]

Take some days off and read "Improve Your Poker" by Bob Ciaffone. Great book.

[MS Sunshine]

Tony

Drop at least one table. Turning into a weak tight is not the answer, but if your flop percentage is higher or your crying call river percentage is up then there are parts of your game to work on. Playing Party $3-6 it is doubtful that game selection is a problem, but playing multipule games hurts this area of winning the most. IMO, it is doubtful that you're no longer a winning playing at this limit, so unless money is an issue then continue at this limit.

Now to what I think might be the problem. If you don't have tilt issues when you run bad then you may have emotional problems with the inevitable downswings of our business. You had written about quiting before after a downswing this is why I mention this.

Winning at poker makes me feel good about myself. A long losing streak makes me feel bad about myself. It's that simple. I, and some others, wrap-up our self-esteem in how we do at the tables. When I do nothing mechanically wrong and lose I still look at myself as scum because I can no longer win. It's not that I play perfect during a down draft, but for the most part it is just varience, nothing more that you are fighting.

As you move up in limits, this will not get easier, because the numbers will get bigger and you will emotionally feel worse. The longer you are a winning player the more confidence that you feel that "this too will pass". This is what gets me through the down swings. I might get smaller for awhile, less tables up and my mix of games will have more of the lower limit games in it. Things like that, but I shy away from changing my basic game.

If you wish, you may sent me 100 hand history block. I will give you my viewpoint on how you're playing. It is best if you take the last 100 hands of the next losing session. Send it to mssunshine@infowest.com.

Anyways best of luck dealing with this.

MS Sunshine

[Jim Easton]

1. Why don't you "fix" PokerStat to work with Party?

2. Quit playing so many tables. Go back to one and really think about what you are doing. Playing multiple tables requires a lot of "auto-pilot". Your auto-pilot is broken. Get it fixed.

3. I have PokerTracker with lots of 3/6 hands and not many with Homer recently, so there won't be much overlap. I'd be happy to help.

[Terry]

I went through a 200+ big bet downturn a few months ago. During that time my pocket pairs were only making sets on the flop 4% of the time instead of the expected 11.5%; ugly cards, ugly beats, ugly gut wrenching feelings.

You seem to think you’re doing something wrong. You say you’re only playing, I think, 16% preflop, so the losses must be coming after the flop. Have you considered dropping down to one game so you have more time to think about the game?

My bad streak did finally end, but before it was over I was down to playing .50/$1 stud just so I could book some winning sessions to help me deal with the horrible feelings and allow me to sit down without wondering “How bad will it be today?” Even though I’m no stud player, I think the change did me good, especially the “attitude” change. It really is tough to win when you “expect” to lose.

[David]

"It is really tough to win when you expect to lose."

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thwang99]

Hi goodguy_1,

I did read your post, sorry for not responding! Your post has lots of good points. I like what you said here:

"Heart and discipline are way-underated in poker while intellect is overated."

The basic strategy and odds, and a sense for when to call/fold, etc, is MUCH easier to arrive at for me than compared to the heart and discipline aspect for me, and for now, if I can fix the discipline/heart aspect, I'm pretty sure I can return to my normal win rate.

About taking a break, I am going to do that, but I really want to "leave on a winning session". Maybe I'm just being stubborn, I should just take a break now, but I really want to wait till I have a +$300 at least session before I stop, but I'll stop now, at least for a week, I think. Thanks for your post!

- Tony

[thwang99]

A lot of you say to drop down in limits. I was considering that, but looking at the average pot sizes on Party, the 2/4 tables aren't much better than 3/6. In fact, last night there were several $60+ avg pot 3/6 tables (I love tables like these, I cannot beat/or I slightly beat tight-aggressive tables).

I love playing ABC poker on 3 tables, and that was how I am able to get a $20+/hour win rate playing 3/6.

Anyways, thanks for the advice, I think rather than drop down in limits, the advice of playing 2 or 1 tables instead of 3 might be good for me.
- Tony

[thwang99]

thomastem,

Yes I am caring too much, I really REALLY want to book a several hundred dollar winning session, just one! You're right though, but I'm not a robot. Anyways, I'm trying to not be so results oriented.
- Tony

[thwang99]

Yes I need to get PokerTracker. I have been saving all my hand histories with the intention of feeding them into PokerStat, but I've been procrastinating on updating it for Stars and Party.
- Tony

[goodguy_1]

thwang...thnx for checking back in and responding in the midst of hard times eventhu i went off on you a little bit....thats heart /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Anybody internet or B&M player thats has played for years as a pro or semi-pro has gone thru the exact same thing you are going thru kiddo.Dont make it personal becuase it happens to all players.The reality of it is is that really this is a great learning experience as horrible as it is.If you know ..i mean understand thru your record keeping that you are a solid earner in this game as I beleive u probably are from your posts...then this will teach u alot. It will make you a stronger player in the long run.WHY?? becuase it'sa gonna happen again if you continue to play ..but next time you will be better prpared for it..You will play better play slower,play tighter,steam less and god forbid you will ahve the confidence in your game to say fock it..i'm just gonna take a break for a week.
So I honestly think this is good for you..IF you have heart love the game and are a solid player..this will make you stronger.
Many players on here have given you great advice.MS Sunshine was very kind to offer assistance.
My advice is RIGHT NOW take off 2-3 days ..go get some sun,surf bike whatever.
Come back and play your same limit but play 1 table and be completely FOCUSED on that one table.Your head will be clearer from the time off.
What happens to me when i run bad like that is all the beats are detritus gathers itself in my psyche for days or weeks(running real bad)If you are so torn down your mind is jello and you cant think clearly.If your thought process is muddled your

game will suffer.You can run bad and play your best game for a longtime but inevitablly your running bad starts to make you play bad also..thats the danger zone ..u may be caught in it right now.
Stupid chit I do when running bad/playing bad:

Overply hands in general by that I mean overplaying big pairs peflop in the face of coordinated boards to muti-way action..dump that cheese

Being too loose in the blinds.
in raised or unraised pots:
calling w/medicocre crap in SB or BB without pot-odds chit like 65s,KT or even KQ in SB to an utg raiser.

not laying hands down when obvioulsy beat.Woe is me syndrome.

Complaing at the table how bad you are running..this is death you are done when you start to whine at your own table.Others can already tell when u are running bad..if you announce it to the world..the fish and even strong players may go out of their way to punish you.

Lastly and this is jsut a few of many stupid things: play subpar hands in bad position..play chit like A9s utg or suited connectors or trap hands like QJ KJ AT in off positions
all garbage hands..luckily those hands have been eradicated from my play running bad or good:)

Here's another one:
when u in adeath spiral
dont try and steal blinds unless u got a decent hand ..that traps u and bleeds money..I'm not saying dont be aggresive just pick your spots more carefully..where you know u got the best of it.

I hope this helped.didnt mean to be harsh.
Take some time off and come back and slowly rebuild your confidence.
Take Care Lee