Dealing with a maniac

[rjc199]

Last couple times I've played I've been at tables with a maniac. The guy will raise randomly with any face card, but also with premium cards.

The problem I have is not what to do when I have good cards, but what to do when I have decent cards for my position (that are usually worth a call), but then this guy seems to be always raising the pot (30% of the time)? Should I ignore his raises completely and pretend it is just a limp? Or should I tighten up slightly (like move up 1 hand ranking group)?

It gets frustrating having to fold semi-decent hands KJo on the button with this guy raising (usually 4 callers), and I know I probably dominate his hand.

What about when it gets post-flop, say I have TPTK and we get into a raising war. The board doesn't look scary. Should I continue to go to war with him on the turn and river, or should I just check-call him?

[onegymrat]

Hi rjc,

I've played from $2-$4 to $10-$20 limits this year and I find at least one at every table. It's amazing, isn't it?

What's worked for me are several things you have to be aware of at the same time. Keep in mind that poker decisions are always situational. The obvious is getting good seat position (two to left of maniac is what works best for me). Second, don't come in on a hand that you wouldn't raise with in normal situations. Which means if you do have position on him, you need to three-bet to narrow the field. Expect a cap though. Which also means the hands you think are good (i.e. KJo is trash in any position now), are not worth the price of admission. Thirdly, pay attention to any tells he's giving you. Does he do anything different with his chips, cards, rechecking his cards, speed of his bet when he does have the nuts? Anything to help crack what he has. If he is shrewd enough to mix it up to fool you, he probably wouldn't be a maniac playing at a low limit table. Fourthly, expect big swings in your chip count and don't get discouraged. You may lose a few, but the hands you do win will be big. Remember, you have just as good of a chance to get premium hands as he does. Be patient, playing on emotion and trying to chase him down will cause you to lose your whole stack.

I've only seen one maniac not bust out this year. He left up two racks only because I overheard him saying he had to leave to join his family for dinner. Yes, he was smart enough to leave ahead, but 99% of them will lose it all in the same session.

You mentioned postflop play headsup with the maniac. Again, this is situational. Is he the type to go to war with you on middle pair? Will he dump his nothing hand if you give him back too much heat? If he is the purest form of a calling station, check call him with your tptk and don't try any fancy stuff. If he has a tendency to muscle people out of pots with nothing then throw in an extra raise or two. Again, revert to previous paragraph.

If all else fails, switch tables if possible, or take a break. You either need to play him correctly or not play with him at all. Good luck.

[TBone]

onegymrat's advice is very good.

Play only your premium hands, if he's a "bully" maniac, and you've got a hand, pop him back. The problem with calling his raise w/ a decent hand for your position, but not a decent hand to call two cold for your position is others may call and have premium hands worthy of calling two cold--leaving you in trouble. Maniacs get decent hands too, so don't concern yourself with whether he/she's raising with a premium hand or not. Just expect to have to call two bets to see the flop, and play accordingly.

Check-raise if possible to punish him/her when you've got a good hand. He/she will likely play any two, so be prepared to get shown 2 pair like 9's and 3's or some stuff like that.

You don't want to be to the right of him/her if at all possible.

Leave your emotional self at the door, and if you tend to get emotional and feel the need to take the other player down, don't play w/ a maniac. You're going to have a lot higher variance in your stack, but you could wind up on top if you hit one or two of your hands. I lost trip Aces to a maniac who called my pre-flop 3-bet w/ J9o and hit his runner-runner gutshot straight on the river. I had AKo, flopped two Aces, check-raised the flop, led the turn, and couldn't get him out. These things will happen, but if you can stay unemotional about it, get him back later, (which I did again w/ AK and QQ) and definitely don't chase.

I also tend to three-bet the flop with more non three-bet hands if a pre-flop maniac raiser raises, since it's often the case that he/she is raising pre-flop with marginal hands. I personally think pre-flop 3-betting with only raising hands is a lot better than calling a raise with a non-raising hand.

T

[Tosh]

Let him steal the odd blind, and just wait for a big pair or big suited cards so you can break him. If he's playing with any 2 cards you'll be such a massive favourite over him you'll win a large amount of the big pots he'll build for you.

[2planka]

Good advice, Bone.

In a 3/6 game at party I had a maniac directly on my right last night (a great spot IMO to have the maniac). He was using the auto raise button as an attempt to intimidate. I had KsQs in one hand in LP with six (!) limpers with the maniac on the button and new I could just call because the maniac would raise. Sure enough, he made it two to go and I smooth called (along with the original 6 limpers). Perfect flop came down As, Ts, Js. Checked to me and I bet. Maniac raises, folded to me, I reraise, he caps. Turn is a blank, but I checkraise the maniac. He calls. River is another good card for me: 10d. I bet, maniac raises, I reraise, maniac caps. My royal is good. He flips up A-T offsuit.

Maniac goes on tilt for a dozen hands or so and pours off his stack. I played super tight, caught Gents in the pocket, flopped a set, and sent the maniac crying for momma. Beautiful thing.

[2planka]

gymrat touches on the other aspect of dealing with maniacs. You have to be patient and adjust your starting standards. Premium hands (group 1-2) do best against the lunatics, with an occasional suited connector thrown in for deception purposes. be prepared to hit the flop or get out against a maniac. Be patient and when the opportunity arises, jam it.

[Clarkmeister]

"be prepared to hit the flop or get out against a maniac"

Provided that its a shorthanded situation, this is very costly advice.

[onegymrat]

You didn't specify if you play in a live cardroom or online. I play exclusively in live cardrooms. I rely heavily on watching my opponents' actions, so playing a maniac for me is not as difficult as it would be if I were online.

Keep in mind also that "maniac" is a real loose term to describe the average, overly-aggressive, too-loose player. Maniac doesn't automatically mean "foolish". Sure, that style of play will eventually burn one's chips, but that doesn't mean after the flop they play poorly. The fact that you mentioned if you should get into a raising war with tptk shows that you either do not recognize a maniac correctly, or you are playing on emotion too often. Why would you go into a raising war with only one pair?

Another advice is that we shouldn't think we are supermen just because we play tight and can identify maniacs. If we flop a royal flush against one, one hardly needs to be a genius to play the nuts. Be careful, extra careful, when dealing with maniacs. In all honesty, I'd much rather have good luck flopping a boat than use skill versus a maniac. Good luck.

[Tosh]

Theres a big difference for live and online play here. I was talking online where you can't read an opponent so easily. If its live you could probably get a much better idea, I agree.

[MaxPower]

I play with maniacs frequently. If you play with this particular maniac frequently, you should try to go beyond labeling him and learn about the way he plays. Some are maniacal pre-flop and then play pretty well after the flop. Some are maniacs on every street. Some will three-bet the flop with nothing, others will only three-bet with a hand. Also, their play will vary by mood and whether they are winning or losing.

You need to make adjustments both pre-flop and post-flop.

If you are on the maniacs left - Don't cold call a maniacs raise with any hand that you wouldn't cold call with normally. However, you should reraise the maniac with many hands that you would normally fold. For instance if the maniac raises UTG, you can reraise with AQ. If you are in a game where players will fold to your 3-bet, you should reraise with many hands that can win unimproved and try to get heads up with the maniac.

If you are on the maniacs right - Try to get on his left. If you can't, try to use his raising to your advantage. If there was ever a time to limp/reraise with Aces, this is it. One nice thing about maniacs is that they are very predictable. If you want to trap people for many bets, use the maniac to check-raise. If you want to thin the field, bet into the maniac and let him reraise.

Post flop - If you are in a multiway pot with the maniac, you need to remember that even if the maniac is betting and raising with nothing, you still have to beat the other players. So unless you can isolate the maniac, you need to play straightforward poker. You will need to win a showdown.

If you are heads-up with the maniac post-flop, you can call him down with as little as Ace high. Only fold if the board gets extremely scary. Most of the time, you shouldn't get into a raising war with the maniac. You don't want to discourage him from betting into you.

You should also notice the effect that the maniac has on the other players at the table.

I think this is basically correct, but I'd welcome any comments.

[2planka]

Agreed. I was using my own recent PP experience as a point of reference: no fold'em.

[pudley4]

If the maniac is on your right, how can you limp/bet and immediately be raised by him? He must have been on your left.

Also, you flop a royal and bet out /images/graemlins/confused.gif With the auto-raising-maniac-directly-on-your-left-and-sure-to-raise, you want everyone to have to coldcall two bets?? /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif