Did I screw myself? My first online NLHE Tourney

[Ulysses]

$20 PartyPoker tourney. 800+ entrants. 500+ left. My stack is 2300. Avg is 1500. Biggest stack is 6000. Blinds are 25/50. My key opponent in this hand has 1200.

I'm in small blind w/ TT.

3 limpers. I call. BB checks. 5 see the flop. 250.

Flop Ts 4c Ad

I bet 100, hoping to get raised by an Ace. 1 caller. 450.

Turn (Ts 4c Ad) As

I bet 200. Caller raises to 400. I raise to 800. He calls. He has 200-something left.

River (Ts 4c Ad As) Ah

Dammit. I push all-in. He calls. His QQ wins.

I think the river bet was mainly tilt, because realistically at best I was chopping w/ a ten. But I had faint hope of getting a call from a smaller pair.

My main question is, at this early stage, should I just go all-in on the turn and hope to take it down?

[Ulysses]

OK. I've worked my way back to an 1800 chip stack. Avg stack is 2100. Leader is 7000. Blinds are 100/200. My main opponent here has 3000.

I'm in CO w/ TT. 3 limpers. I call. Blinds check. 1200 in the pot.

Flop 68T rainbow.

Checked to my right. He bets 1200. I go all-in for 1600. He calls.

Turn 7. River 9. Straight on the board.

We chop. He had AT. AAAAAARRRRRGHHHHHH..

At least he didn't have JT.

OK. Sorry 'bout that.

[Ulysses]

So, I work my way back to an average stack of about 2500. (Chip leader is 12000). There are about 300 of 800 left. Then they have technical problems and cancel the tourney. Blech. I think that means I'll get $50 or something like that. Woohoo.

On the flip side, I'm sort of glad I didn't win those two flopped sets. I would have been one of the chip leaders then and really annoyed at the cancellation!

[Guy McSucker]

I think the river bet was mainly tilt

I misread this as "manly tilt" which made me laugh out loud.

My main question is, at this early stage, should I just go all-in on the turn and hope to take it down?

Hmmm, not sure. The most likely hand for him is something with an ace in it, and I don't think he's going to fold that. Granted he didn't have an ace, but lots of the time he will.

I'd bet 500 or so, he raises all-in and sucks out.

Guy.

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
(on the turn) I bet 200. Caller raises to 400. I raise to 800. He calls. He has 200-something left....
...should I just go all-in on the turn and hope to take it down?

[/ QUOTE ]

If he called 800 on the turn, he'll call the all-in, too, so don't beat yourself up over that.

Personally, I check this flop (5 players, SOMEBODY's got to have an Ace), smooth-call, then check-raise all-in on the turn. At least, that's the plan. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Depending on how loose limpers have been, I might raise to 300 preflop.

I'd rather try to collect from an A on the flop. Good place to consider a big check-raise.

With the A falling on the turn, a player with an A now has 7 outs to beat you. I'd bet the pot.

Ugly river.

[ohkanada]

I would bet closer to the pot on the flop and the turn. So instead of 100 I might bet 200. On the turn I might bet 350 or 400 instead of 200. And once he raises I go all-in.

Results would have likely been the same because someone who doesn't raise with QQ pre-flop, isn't likely to fold anytime soon.

Ken Poklitar

[Greg (FossilMan)]

[ QUOTE ]
My main question is, at this early stage, should I just go all-in on the turn and hope to take it down?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

You should go all-in on the turn and hope you get called. First, you hope you get called by a hand with no outs. Second, you hope that the caller misses whatever outs he does have.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
I would bet closer to the pot on the flop and the turn. So instead of 100 I might bet 200. On the turn I might bet 350 or 400 instead of 200. And once he raises I go all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]

In live tourneys and NL ring games, I'm betting the pot so much that I'm going to do that in this situation as well. However, at this table, everyone was underbetting like this to "test" when they had a medium hand - in this case I was hoping to represent a ten.

When the Ace hits on the turn, I figure I'm up against either a Ten (which would fold to a big bet) or maybe a weak Ace (which would raise me here). I thought that in either scenario, a smallish bet was my best bet to get the most chips into the middle. When he raised me small, I thought he would probably call an all-in re-raise, but I felt more sure he would call the 400 chip re-raise to 800. And if I get him to call that, I think he's going to call his last 200 w/ just about anything. Make any sense?

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]

No.

You should go all-in on the turn and hope you get called. First, you hope you get called by a hand with no outs. Second, you hope that the caller misses whatever outs he does have.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cool. I felt pretty confident that this opponent did not have a strong Ace on the flop based on his prior play - I put him on either a Ten or a weak Ace or maybe even a smaller pair. Because of this, I felt that he would muck to a big bet on the turn without an Ace and if he does have an Ace, I'm going to face a raise and can go from there. That's why I bet small. When he re-raised, I felt that there was a greater chance that he'd muck to an all-in re-raise than a re-raise to 800. But once he calls the 800, he's very likely to call off his last 200 on the river w/ any kind of hand. So, my goal was to get all of his chips rather than just increase my chip position by taking down a smaller pot on the turn.

[sam h]

I probably would have raised preflop the first hand but with the blinds so small relative to stack size and your poor position, an argument can be made for calling.

But this hand is another story.

With 900 chips in the pot already and you sitting on a stack of 1800, not moving in before the flop is a big mistake. You will likely be faced with overcards on most flops and while you do have position, you won't know what to do when one of your opponents makes some kind of small bet in your direction.

[Ulysses]

Two of the limpers had something like 500 or 600 left after limping in. I felt like there was a good chance that one or both would call w/ just about anything playable if I went all-in. Does that affect your decision at all (in either direction)?

[David Ottosen]

Well don't bet the river, as you say. That said, I probably would have just moved in on the turn. However, he's supposed to have an ace here which means that all the chips are going in either way.

[Wake up CALL]

Ulysses I thought I advised you to play tight early and get plenty lucky late. What happened to our game plan? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[trillig]

Hi, looks like you ran into a calling station, he is a moron for riding that to the end, and just dumb luck gotcha as it often does.

Probably would have called you down no matter what...

Not to worry, he got his butt kicked soon enough I am sure.

-t

[PlayerA]

There is a difference in calling a 400 raise and calling 800 cold. He may not have done that. He may have read Ulysses as weak and then thought he was being played back at with the 400 re-raise. At any rate, the trap "worked" in the sense it got the more money in the pot from someone that had a long shot (4 outs). Personally, I would take it on down the turn (if he calls, then it's an even worse mistake for him).