2 hands: Bad Beats or River Leaks

[SirFoldsAlot]

Hand 1: OK this is definately a bad beat, but I am undecided on if I played this right, especially the river bet...

I am in the MP and dealt Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif

2 callers to me and I raise, SB cold calls, 2 original caller call, everybody else folded

Flop Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB checks, BB checks, EP Bets, I raise, everybody calls

Turn: 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB checks, BB bets, I raise, SB calls, BB calls.

River: 5d

check, check, I bet, SB calls, BB Folds

SB shows 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and takes down the pot

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Hand 2:

I am in MP and get J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/heart.gif

folded to me I decide to limp in, only the SB calls and BB checks

FLop: 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB bets, BB calls, I raise

Turn: 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

check, check, I bet, call, call

River: A /images/graemlins/spade.gif

check, bet, I raise( I just didn't think he had the 2), fold, call

He turns over 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif for the rivered wheel

Overall I think I am playing well, averaging close to 8 BB an hour for the last 10 or so sessions, but its these situations that make me wonder if I am leaking too many BB's. I appreciate any advice...

[pudley4]

Hand 1: That's a tough board to bet into (4-straight and 3-flush), but you can easily fold to a checkraise. I would probably have checked the river too, but that's because I would have planned ahead by raising the turn with the intention of checking the river if a scare card came (I don't know if that's why you raised the turn or not)

Hand 2: The BB has been calling along but now he bets out on the river? I'd probably call and go for the overcall from the SB.

[ QUOTE ]
Overall I think I am playing well, averaging close to 8 BB an hour for the last 10 or so sessions

[/ QUOTE ]

A win rate of 8 BB/hr more closely correlates to the deck hitting one over the head than it does to an individual's skill.

[SirFoldsAlot]

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I would have planned ahead by raising the turn with the intention of checking the river if a scare card came (I don't know if that's why you raised the turn or not)


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I put him on Q w/ a shitty kicker, so the 5 didn't scare me much, unfortunately he rivered his kicker. I figured as aggressive as I was, he'd put me on a set and I was pretty sure my to pair decent kicker was good.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: The BB has been calling along but now he bets out on the river? I'd probably call and go for the overcall from the SB.


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In retrospect, I think I agree.

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A win rate of 8 BB/hr more closely correlates to the deck hitting one over the head than it does to an individual's skill.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually over the last 3000 hands the deck has been rather cold for me, only being able to see the flop 15% of the time outside of the blinds. But I have been fortuante to drag big pots when I do win. I am less concerned about my hourly rate which is sligtly less that 4 BB/ph since I started keeping stats this summer and more concerned about plugging leaks in my play.

[Robk]

I don't understand why you would raise preflop in hand 1 and limp in hand 2. I would generally do the opposite.

[johnb]

Hand 1:

I would have just called pre flop. I actually want callers here in case I hit a straight or flush so I think the most positive EV play is to call and encourage other calls. I would have checked the river as it appears to me to have been a classic situation of only better hands calling.

Hand 2:
I would raise pre flop. One thing that I am convinced of as I play more and more holdem is that one of the big positives of a preflop raise is to clear out hands like 5-2 offsuit. When I am betting on the flop and turn and the blinds are calling I start to get a little nervous because it is tough to get a good read on what they have.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: OK this is definately a bad beat, but I am undecided on if I played this right, especially the river bet...

I am in the MP and dealt Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif

2 callers to me and I raise, SB cold calls, 2 original caller call, everybody else folded

Flop Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB checks, BB checks, EP Bets, I raise, everybody calls

Turn: 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB checks, BB bets, I raise, SB calls, BB calls.

River: 5d

check, check, I bet, SB calls, BB Folds

SB shows 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and takes down the pot


[/ QUOTE ]

I think your opponents play was reasonable, he bet his top pair and then picked up an open ended straight draw so he bet again. I think your play was ok too, although I don't think you'd be giving up much by checking it behind.
If you'll get called by worse queens then betting would be right, else just showdown.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2:

I am in MP and get J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/heart.gif

folded to me I decide to limp in, only the SB calls and BB checks

FLop: 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB bets, BB calls, I raise

Turn: 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

check, check, I bet, call, call

River: A /images/graemlins/spade.gif

check, bet, I raise( I just didn't think he had the 2), fold, call

He turns over 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif for the rivered wheel

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Just call him. He's doing one of 3 things:
1) Betting a set he's slowplayed all the way to the river - raising costs you money.
2) Betting a rivered straight - raising costs you money
3) Representing a straight - raising will just get him to fold and gain you nothing.

[ QUOTE ]
Overall I think I am playing well, averaging close to 8 BB an hour for the last 10 or so sessions, but its these situations that make me wonder if I am leaking too many BB's. I appreciate any advice...

[/ QUOTE ]

8 BB's per hour is likely from a rush of good cards and won't be an achieveable long term result. I think 4BB's an hour is something to aim for.




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[SirFoldsAlot]

the second hand had no action, so I thought a limp and get callers would be a better EV play than a raise which may force the people behind me out.