Palestinians again show true colors

[B-Man]

The "truce" was simply a disguise designed to (1) allow the militants time to strengthen themselves, and (2) fool Israel and the world into thinking the militants were interested in pursuing peace. Yesterday's slaughter of women and children is far more indicative of their true intentions.

Israel will never, ever have peace with these militants. You can't make peace with someone that is committed to destroying you. Anyone who has followed the history of this region for the last 3 years (or the last 30, for that matter) and thinks the militants will settle for anything less than the destruction of Israel is a fool. Even if the Palestinians get their state (which I think they should, and will), why would anyone think the militants will stop their attacks? They want all the land, and they want the Jews dead or gone. Nothing else is acceptable to them.

The militants need to be wiped out. All of them.

It's time for Abbas to make a decision. If he is truly interested in peace, he needs to crack down on the militants and assume control as the true leader of the Palestinians, a leader who is able to deliver on his promises and keep the various factions in line. If he does not crack down on the militants, then he will be a weak leader that will be unable to accomplish anything (vs. the duplicitous Arafat, who was never interested in accomplishing anything over than murdering Jews and destroying Israel).

If I was Israel, I would finish that fence ASAP. Unfortunately, you are likely to hear far more condemnation of the fence then of the suicide bombings. Just wait and see...

[brad]

i agree. big mess.

basically you have two sides which cant negotiate in good faith because they want the same thing.

[MMMMMM]

They don't want the same thing. The militants want to totally destroy Israel. Israel doesn't share that goal.

[Cyrus]

The latest suicide bombing is to be condemned as strongly as all the other suicide bombings during that bloody campaign of terror. In number of victims, moreover, it may turn out to be the worst of all. I don't know.

We have a faction of Palestinians that is not keen at all to see peace in the region. They may be thinking in terms of 1947 still. That faction, though, has enough strength to cause damage to the peace process, as fragile as that process currently is.

However, the Israeli leadership is 'communicating' and 'conversing' with that beligerent faction, and 'ignoring' the mainstream Palestinian leadership.
Mahmood Abbas, the designated Palestinian PM, is totally without any power. He commands no police, he oversees no administration, he is practically a figurehead. Yet, Israel demands that he stops the terrorists! But this is demanding the impossible.

At the same time, Israel pretends it is causing no provocation and is acting completely within the spirit of the roadmap when is does things like, last week, it executed a Palestinian Jihad officer, Mohammed Sidr. The Palestinian Jihad terroristst predictably announced they would avenge his death, and they did.

I am not saying that people like Sidr, who may have been guilty of past terrorist activities, should escape punishment altogether. All I'm saying is that Sidr and others like him can be dealt with later, when their punishment will no be longer a danger to peace. Yet, Israel persists in rattling the terrorists' cages. The Israeli leadership could perhaps enjoy our goowdill and we could take its actions against Palestinian terrorists to be simple miscalculations, if that leadership had not lost such goodwill a long time ago. Not only is Israel not interested in making sacrifices for peace (such as allowing a Jihad criminal to live for one more year), it wants and incites terror by provoking the crazies. Sad and horrible as this sounds, Ariel Sharon would rather face the blood and gore of crazied terrorists than serious talks with serious Palestinians. The former means keeping things as they are, while the latter means an eventual Palestinian state.

Think : Who supports more the American road map to peace ? Ariel Sharon or Mahmood Abbas?

--Cyrus

[MMMMMM]

I'm thinking the situation may be coming to a head in the next year or so. Provoking the fanatical militants isn't the point. They've essentially shown that they will attack with or without provocation. The point is that the true colors of Palestinian militant fanaticism are showing, as B-Man said.

I suggest the US and Israel strongly consider launching a joint campaign to wipe out all the regional masters of terror and their underlying support infrastructures. The US could easily take out Hezbollah while Israel crushes the Palestinian militants. I think the time may be coming for a thorough sweep and lockdown and total disarming of all the goons in Palestinian territory. The entire Palestinian population could be disarmed if need be. As for Hezbollah, a bunch of Daisy Cutters on their terror training camps and precision munitions on their artillery batteries ought to set them back many years.

The Palestinian militants are goons, sharing the same fanatical type of outlook their al-Qaeda and Islamist brethren have. They are no good; they are fanatically and implacably geared toward death and destruction. The only answer, I fear, is to wipe them out before they kill...and kill...and kill...and kill..and kill again.

You can't reason with a madman and you can't reason with a fanatic. People keep hoping for a better solution and seem unwilling to realize just what true fanaticism is and what it means for the future.

[B-Man]

Think : Who supports more the American road map to peace ? Ariel Sharon or Mahmood Abbas?

I don't know, and I'm not sure it matters. Abbas is either unable or unwilling to crack down on the militants, which is necessary for the roadmap to lead anywhere. He may have taken some steps along the map, but without cracking down on militants, it is just window-dressing.

Sharon has also taken steps called for by the roadmap (such as withdrawing troops, releasing prisoners, etc.), even if some of Israel's other actions have been provoking, whether justified or not.

The bottom line is that the militants are the problem. They refuse to be part of the solution, so they need to be destroyed/arrested/dealt with somehow. If Abbas is unable to do something about them, then someone else is going to have to do it before there will ever be peace. Whether that person is Abbas, Arafat, Sharon, George Bush, or someone else, I don't know...

[Timer]

[ QUOTE ]


Even if the Palestinians get their state (which I think they should, and will), why would anyone think the militants will stop their attacks?

[/ QUOTE ]

A Palestinian state? Never. It's just a ruse. The Palestinians don't want one and the Israelis can't allow it. They want ALL of Israel, not just their own state.


[ QUOTE ]
It's time for Abbas to make a decision. If he is truly interested in peace, he needs to crack down on the militants and assume control as the true leader of the Palestinians, a leader who is able to deliver on his promises and keep the various factions in line.

Abbas. What a joke. He is less than a figurehead.



[/ QUOTE ]

[Cyrus]

"Abbas is either unable or unwilling to crack down on the militants, which is necessary for the roadmap to lead anywhere."

I agree.

But if Abbas is unable, the part about being unwilling becomes irrelevant. And it is easy to demonstrate that he is indeed unable (no police, no intelligence apparatus, no administration whatsoever, etc etc).

So what does one do with the fanatics? They have agreed to truces in the past, provided that Israel does not execute any of their officers. One way is for Israel to ignore such opportunities for a truce, and go after the terrorists hard -- as it does now. This causes a serious amount of collateral damage, equal to the damage done by suicide attacks (which alienates and radicalizes moderate Palestinians).

The other way is to finally, bravely, irrevocably take the necessary steps towards peaceful co-existence. And towards implementing the roadmap. This option has never been tried!

Instead we get more Wall, more settlements, more military measures, more of the same. And then more suicide bombings.

[Cyrus]

"A Palestinian state? Never. It's just a ruse. The Palestinians don't want one and the Israelis can't allow it. [The Palestinians] want ALL of Israel, not just their own state."

Just out of curiosity : Suppose the Palestinians get a state of their own. And not just the subservient and non-connected areas that the Israelis offer but a truly independent state. With Israel's agreement. Just suppose.

How in the world will the Palestinians be able to subsequently take over "ALL of Israel"?? Won't the Israelis crush them if they try? This is absurd.

[MMMMMM]

Yes it's absurd to think that they would be able to take over all of Israel, even operating from a state of their own. No, it's not absurd to think that they would still try. In fact it's practically a given that they would attack from whatever vantage point they have.

The militants don't want a state of their own: they want ISRAEL.

[MMMMMM]

Cyrus, their "truce" is a sham: an opportunity to re-arm and regroup. They were planning to later attack Israel on their own terms, at a time of their choosing, but they blew it. They showed their true colors (as if anyone without blinders on didn't already know).

The Palestinians NEVER honor any truces or pledges...never, not one. The goal of the militants is clear. People shudder to think what this implies but it should be obvious. Not facing a problem does not make it go away.

The militants are irrevocably committed to one thing and one thing only. Any negotiations they engage in leading to false hopes are only suggested because their eyes are unswervingly on their ultimate goal: all of Israel, through terror...or death trying. Well...if they are determined to get to Paradise better to send them there than to let them drag you there with them. Why isn't this obvious.

[Cyrus]

"Their "truce" is a sham: an opportunity to re-arm and regroup."

Yes, this is the justification given by the Israelis for sending rockets down Palestinian streets to hit the terrorists (and any passer by).

However, concepts such as "re-grouping" or "re-arming" are relevant to the standard kind of warfare, two organised armies face off. You can even apply such concepts to guerilla warfare. But not to fighting terrorism! All it takes to have a suicide bombing is availability of candidate "martyrs". These people in daily life can be anywhere, they have no need to "re-group" in any way. And the explosives are just hidden somewhere, not too elaborately probably. There's no question of "re-arming".

"The Palestinians NEVER honor any truces or pledges...never, not one."

Maybe so. I don't have the chronology of this circle of violence. But it seems to me that Israel has not restrained itself either, to say the least. I believe that Israel has hit upon Palestinian leaders time and again, even without suicide bombing attacks (which after all started only two years ago).

At the very least, Israel has not stopped executing anyone who considers a threat. Even if that meant provoking the crazies into more violence.

[brad]

what do you mean. its common knowledge (pretty much all pm's quotes support this) that isreael is gonna wait out the indiginous population (ie, palestinians) and then expel them.

[MMMMMM]

You say Israel has not shown restraint, but I beg to differ. I think Israel has showm immense restraint, far more than we would have shown if we were regularly attacked on our own soil.

Israel could many times have inflicted far more damage on those who attacked her, but chose restraint. But give the Palestinians one real chance to obliterate Israel and they will use it (e.g. a nuclear weapon).

I think, as nutty as Ann Coulter might be, she had it right about terrorists in general when she said:

"Ah yes, we must mollify angry fanatics who seek our destruction because otherwise .. they might get mad and seek our destruction."

This is the line that everyone has fallen for (hook bait and sinker) who thinks that it will make a significant difference in the long run whether or not the Palestinian militants are "provoked." In the long run there is one certainty only regarding Palestinian militants: that they will attack.

The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist. As we see terrorists now expanding their hatreds and targets, the world is very slowly starting to be made aware of this profound truth.

[ACPlayer]

They actually do want the same thing -- the ability to live in what is now the West Bank. Israel wants them out of there and is provocative enough to provide the extremists (hamas, jihad, etc) the reasons to continue their crap.

Note that the latest Intifida started after Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount during his election so he could win votes. He opposed the construction of the wall because it could someday become the basis of a border. The right wing regime in Israel is committed to settling the west bank just as the right wing Palestinians want to throw the Israeli's out.

As usual the right wing on both sides is wrong and is causing much damage to the innocent bystanders on both sides with their tactics.

Why is the right never right???????

[B-Man]

They actually do want the same thing -- the ability to live in what is now the West Bank.

That is NOT what the militants want. They want to destroy Israel, and they want ALL of the land, not just the West Bank.