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View Full Version : As requested by the Omniscient Cyrus


Wake up CALL
08-19-2003, 02:52 PM
"Now, about travel :

I don't think that that American lady broke any laws or violated an executive orders. Again, any input to the contrary would be most welcome (cite, please). But if there was a law in America that prohibits even the simple act of traveling to a certain country, say Cuba, then any American who would step onto Cuban soil would have committed a crime. Which would be prosecuted in the county where from he left America for Cuba, if I understand correctly.

Any lawyers around? "

Cyrus an attorney has already given his opinion on this matter which you so conveniently ignored. (Perhaps because he disagreed with your analysis?)

Here are some links outlining her fines:

Schoolteacher Fined By Treasury Dept (http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/08/11/human.shield.fine.ap/)

She is not Alone (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/08/12/wirq112.xml)

From the US Treasury website (requires Adobe Acrobat Reader 5.0 or higher)

Why She Shouldn't Ought to Have Done That (http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/eotffc/ofac/sanctions/t11iraq.pdf)

Prior Approval for Travel Required (http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/eotffc/ofac/sanctions/iraq_gl2.pdf)

Definition of Humanitarian Support (http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/eotffc/ofac/sanctions/iraq_gl3.pdf)

Plenty more but I do not want to saturate your brain Cyrus. Any useful comments?

Cyrus
08-19-2003, 03:46 PM
I will take a look, see what I learn in there.

...I see that even when I explicitly state that I am not a lawyer and moreover that "I may be wrong in this", I still get to be called names! You're amazing. (And funny.)

MMMMMM
08-19-2003, 04:45 PM
Yes he is funny. Now if we could only get Jimbo back, would things be twice as funny?

Cyrus
08-19-2003, 06:20 PM
Dear Wake up CALL,

I don't know if it's because "English is your third language", as you wrote, but apparently you have not studied your own links! However, I have, as I promised you. And, as I expected, I only saw proof that your claims are false.

Two of the links, Schoolteacher Fined By Treasury Dept (http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/08/11/human.shield.fine.ap/) and She is not alone (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/08/12/wirq112.xml) take us to the news of her arrest, as reported in the press, with all the official assertions but without any justification for the charges against her at all. We knew the story, man! Nothing new there.

I then studied the other three links. Those are detailing the U.S. statutes about the embargo to Iraq. The statutes explicitly forbid the following:

"The exportation ... to Iraq of any goods or technology (including technical data or other information) controlled by the Department of Commerce...[excepting those] that are necessary to provide privately financed humanitarian support, or to plan or prepare for the provision of humanitarian support, to the Iraqi people [which] are authorized."

However, the lady went to Iraq not to do business, give money, engage in trade, export goods or in any way financially assist the regime or the people of Iraq. (The lady, come to think of it, engaged in fewer financial transactions with the Iraqi regime, than did the journalists that were reporting from Baghdad!) There's also a provision about the United States blocking Iraqi assets and the exporting of Iraqi oil but as I recall the lady did no un-freezing of Iraqi assets and she carried no oil barrels outta the country!

The lady simply traveled to Iraq, like many others. She was someone who dared to voice opposition to the war while being in Iraq. This is what disturbed the powers that be. But is there a law in America against freely speaking one's mind??

Your hastily gathered links demonstrate that the government has no case. On the other hand, I have been provided with some official texts to which I can now direct anyone who claims the lady's broke the law. Thanks for saving me one web search. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Yours, in all the wrong ways,

--Cyrus

The links kindly provided by Wake up CALL, once more :
An overview of the 1990 Iraqi Sanctions Regulations (http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/eotffc/ofac/sanctions/t11iraq.pdf)

IRAQI SANCTIONS REGULATIONS - GENERAL LICENSE (#2) (http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/eotffc/ofac/sanctions/iraq_gl2.pdf)

IRAQI SANCTIONS REGULATIONS - GENERAL LICENSE (#3) (http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/eotffc/ofac/sanctions/iraq_gl3.pdf)

Wake up CALL
08-19-2003, 06:33 PM
Cyrus wrote "I don't think that that American lady broke any laws or violated an executive orders."

Then Cyrus wrote "Two of the links, Schoolteacher Fined By Treasury Dept and She is not alone take us to the news of her arrest, as reported in the press, with all the official assertions but without any justification for the charges against her at all. We knew the story, man! Nothing new there.'

Any contradiction here?

Wake up CALL
08-19-2003, 06:35 PM
I read all the links you provided as well Cyrus. Just how do these exonerate the schoolteacher? Oh they don't do they?

Cyrus
08-20-2003, 02:04 AM
Compadre, there ain't no "contradiction", if I may use such diction.

The lady has been accused of breaking the law. That was the story in the news. We all know about it. You provided links to the news items as if I needed convincing that she was accused of breaking the law. Thanks for nothing. I did not contest that she has been accused of violating the law. I know and accept that she has been fined for breaking the law.

What I am contesting is that she actually broke any laws! I say she didn't! (If you are accused tomorrow of breaking a law and you don't agree with the state's accusations, you have the option of not accepting the state's accusations.) This is why I wrote, compadre, "Take her to court (please)!"...

The other links that you have provided me with, only strengthen that conviction, i.e. that there is nothing written in those sanctions that make what that retired schoolteacher did illegal. It was fun reading the texts from links you provided.

Hope it's more clear now, but if it isn't, feel free to come back for more.

Wake up CALL
08-20-2003, 12:07 PM
Cyrus if I'm ever accused of jaywalking I don't want you as my legal advisor. I would likely get a lethal injection after you were through.