9-18 Central Ca

[Mike Burchett]

I don't want to be results oriented, so I was hoping for comments on my play.


I'm in the cuttoff with red queens first hand of the night.
One EP limper (Loose Passive Moron - LPM) and one MP limper (another LPM) to me. I raise. BB (unknown to me) calls, and both LPMs call.

Flop: Kc10s7h
Checked to me... your move?

I don't really think it's a close decision so I bet.

BB calls. LPM1 calls. LPM2 calls. (ugh)

Turn Ks (board:Kc10s7hKs)

BB bets. Both LPMs fold.
I'm thinking raise/checkdown river or fold here... your move?

[elysium]

hi mike
call

[Louie Landale]

That King ..err.. that 2nd King was a real good card for your hand.

Calling-then-calling seems better than raising-then-checking, especially if he's sure to bet his "KingsUp" on the river. Unless you can get him to lay down hands drawing to beat you like AT or QJ.

Raising-then-betting sure seems like an option, especially if you know your player.

The real answer is this: if you genuinely hesitate then call, otherwise raise.

- Louie

[pilchard]

Your bet on the flop is the right play.

If I had a K and I was the BB I would have check raised the flop given that board. The board is closely connected and there will be a lot of straight draws out there. The fact that he just called would lead me to believe that he was on some kind of a draw.

When the K comes on the turn he will know that it reduces the odds of you having a K. He could be betting QJ hoping to get you to release your hand. He may have just picked up a flush draw. Against this line of thinking is the fact that he has 3 players to act after him so if he hasn't got a K he has to weigh up the chances someone has and he may get raised.

Given that he did not check raise the flop I would probably raise the turn and aim for a free showdown. Particularly as he may not three bet a K for fear of being against a bigger K or TT. If he three bets, I would fold.

[Mike Burchett]

Hi Elysium, thanks for the post.

Just call? Any insight on why? (always open to anything)

If he checks on river? Value bet? Check down?

I'm assuming that when you say call, you mean call the turn and call the river if he bets too, right?



Thanks again

[Mike Burchett]

Thanks pilchard,

Your line of thinking was very close to mine. Especially knowing this player now (Loose Aggressive) I would expect a check raise somewhere with a king (flop or turn). I figured his hand deserved a little test, so to speak. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Results in a moment.

[Mike Burchett]

I decided that he most likely did not have a king. Since I am going to call a river bet if I call, I figured the raise-free showdown might be best. If he three bets I am beat unless he is hyper-aggressive, so I figured I'd give it a shot.

I raised. BB calls.
River is complete blank. BB checks, I check.
BB shows T8o for Kings and Tens with bad kicker!! /images/graemlins/confused.gif. My Kings and Queens take it down. I look at watch. It says 11:30 pm. I figure I'm here until this game breaks. Yeah, it was a good session /images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

[Ed Miller]

I don't really think it's appropriate to call your opponents morons. In other news, I think folding here is almost always wrong. This betting is not typical of someone with a King. So I would raise the turn with the intention of betting the river.

[Ed Miller]

If you just called on the turn, and your opponent checks to you on the river, then your hand is good like 98% of the time an Ace doesn't come. Checking it down would be ridiculous.

[Diplomat]

It depends on your opponent (how cliche). If the BB is unknown, I'd lean towards just calling. If checked to on the river I'd bet almost every time. If bet into on the river I'd be split between raising and just calling.

One reason not to raise the turn would be you do not want to pay 4 bets to see his hand. (3 on the turn and 1 on the river) Another is that you do not want to blow out a hand like AT.

-Diplomat

[Mike Burchett]

I apologize for the morons comment. I was just trying to be funny. They are actually nice guys. Just very loose and very passive nice guys ;-).

And I am thinking that maybe I should have bet the river.

[Ed Miller]

Very few people would actually play a king that way. That is they way people represent a king (though obviously it doesn't really work that well, hehe). So yes, you should probably just have assumed that you were best and bet the river. If you are wrong, it costs you one bet, because your opponents with a king worse than AK will fear AK.