Does my play make you sick?

[Actuary]

I played two hands in my last section that bothers me a litle bit. Would you have played them differently?

Hand 1:

I am in the BB with A /images/graemlins/spade.gif T /images/graemlins/heart.gif. One late position blind. A player after the extra blind raises, SB calls I call and late blind folds.

Flop:
A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

SB bets. He is always trying to pick up the pots on the flop with nothing, and he can fold to a raise.

Q1.1: What to do here?

My anwser: I raise, trying to isolate the possible stealer. Unfortunately preflop raiser calls but SB folds.

Turn: 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Q2.2 Do you
a) bet with the intention of folding to a raise
b)check with the intension of folding
or
c) check with the intention of calling

My anwser: I chose a, and he did in fact raise.

Hand 2: Middle position with K /images/graemlins/spade.gif T /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Two callers before me, I call. Player to my left raises, and we are 5 to see the flop for two bets each.
Flop: 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif.

Checked to me. I know the preflop raiser to be aggrasive but also able to fold.

Q2.1: What to do?
My anwser: I bet in the hope that he will raise regardless of his cards. I hope to make it HU.
He does raise, and it is folded to me

Q2.2: Now what?
My anwser: I reraise, planning to bet the turn if he does not raise. I believe I can make him fold if he does not have overpair or better. He caps /images/graemlins/crazy.gif. I call and check fold turn.

Please dont spare my feelings in your respond /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[M.B.E.]

I like your play on Hand 1.

On Hand 2, it seems that when you saw the flop your plan was to bet knowing the preflop raiser would raise, so you could threebet the flop and win it with a bet on the turn. Essentially the plan is to invest five small bets in order to win 13 small bets (10 in the pot already plus three from your opponent on the flop). So your plan is +EV if it will succeed 28% of the time or more. The real problem with this is that you make the pot so big that your opponent's probably going to call the turn even with just overcards. From your opponent's perspective, assuming he's just called your flop threebet, when you bet on the turn he's getting 9:1 pot odds. That's enough for him to call if he thinks it's likely that you have one pair. Then add in the possibility that your opponent has an overpair (to the flop), and the possibility that even if he has AJ or whatever he might improve on the turn. Also you've got to worry about the three other players in the hand who have checked. It's not guaranteed that they're going to fold when the preflop raiser raises the flop. In fact, they might be planning to checkraise.

Why not just check the flop, and call if it's only one bet to you. Then bet the turn if it's a king, ten, or spade, otherwise checkfold.

[DennisB]

Hand 1....pre-flop I found that I do better now that I do not call a LP raiser from the BB without a hand I cannot re-rasie with. I would have trashed the A-10 offsuit before the flop even though he may be on a steal. I now require my hand to be AJ offsuit or better, in which case I would re-raise to test the water. (let me insert here....if i start to feel i'm being LP raised too much because they view me to fold BB too much....then I revert to spurratic (sp) aggresive play, which means i may re-raise with 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif and ram it all the way regardless of the board unless my opponent starts raising.)
Becasue the late position player did not re-raise you on the post flop raise, I would not give him credit for a diamond flush or a draw to a diamond flush therefore the question what to do on the turn when the 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif hits, i hunker down into the check / call mode. I'm hoping he is bluffing and after he sees my check / call on the turn, i'm hoping for a check / check on the river but would still call if he bets.

2nd hand....k /images/graemlins/spade.gif10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif with 2 callers in front of you....i would have raised or folded. But you called preflop and then bet the flop in hopes he raises...he does...it's folded to you. I fold right there, to me he obviously has me beat. On my loosest day at the table...I may call that raise at best and then if i did not pick up a flush draw or top pair, would have check/folded.

My play may not be correct. But it's what i would have done.

[ragedyandy]

Hey Actuary. I worked as an Actuary for 4 years in the Health Insurance Industry. Interesting to see Actuary as a handle.

Hand1:
Q1: In these situations, I like to check to see what develops by the time it gets back to me. But SB bets, so you don't have that luxury. SB might have a hand here, that's one of the benefits of trying to pick up the pot all the time - your real hands are disguised. You have two players left to act after you, if either of them has a big /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, they're sure to call. You could argue that you're raising for information - and you got that; pf raiser has a big /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I think I would fold and look for a better opportunity to raise for value/info/steal.

Q2. I agree with your approach.

Hand2:

What are these guys calling with btf? I'd either raise or fold btf on this one and I'd be leaning towards raising if the EP limpers had poor hand selection standards.

Q1:
Again, I'd check and see what develops. If pf raiser bets and you callers, I'd be inclined to raise. This might get everyone to define there hands for you then and there ... it might go muck, muck, muck. I believe you can make most players fold when they don't hold an overpair or better.

Q2: I don't know, player dependant. I don't like it though, tough decisions.

Just fold btf and wait for better opportunities.

[manku]

Not related to your play, but HOW bad does LB's hand have to be to fold. After all, he is:

A. Completing the betting.
B. Getting 9-1 on his call.
C. Has good position in cutoff.
D. Being a blind, has deceptive power
E. If you make a hand, other players will remember the garbage you call with giving you future action.

Personally, I would call with ANYTHING. But maybe I just crave the action too much.

Comments?

Manku

[Louie Landale]

[1] Tough. Maybe he'll fold AQ.

[2] Your hand wasn't worth a raise before the flop and you got no help at all, and are out of position against a better hand. Check-and-Fold is the prime option here.

[1] If you feel upedy with hand [2] I'm confident you often feel upedy with LOTS of other hands as well. You are obviously, and I do mean "obviously to the other players", way too aggressive. Players who have enough to call raises do NOT throw hands away against upedy players, and rightfully so. So in retrospect your turn bet in hand [1] was pretty hopeless.

Save your bluffs for when you actually flop something like a gut-draw; that's the best way to stop from having a 3:1 bluff:solid hand betting ratio.

- Louie

[bad beetz]

in hand one, check/fold the turn. other than that, great.

on hand two, I don't like the flop three-bet. Also, this reverse-isolation [censored] that I do myself always seems to not work. I guess just call his autoraise and try and pick up a ten or running spades. I don't really know what to do once you get raised and it's folded back to you. I mean, that was your plan, and it worked, but now things suck for you and you're out of position.

[elysium]

hi act
i haven't read any of the threads but i see mr. landale has a thread in. if this doesn't match what he says i defer that you listen to him. same goes for tommy, but not if he reads my thread before posting his.

i'm such an influence.

anywho, what have you done this time act. i'm sure it's nothing major. you're not a problem student.......; looking good there, looking good there.......;the only issue, and it's minor, is on hand 2 with the reraise. he may fold, so the reraise......hmmmm. i'm not sure you want to fold him out on the flop. it's not bad if you fold him then; you didn't flop very well, but i think you have one more out. no, after you reraise and he caps i'm not thinking you have more outs, but before your flop raise, i think you lead.

you say he may fold. that's good! the thing is, when is it better to go for the fold? is it better to try to fold on the flop? or is it better to try to fold on the turn? and lastly, if you decide that you have a better chance of getting that fold on the turn, how are you going to fold him? are you going to bet out , or check-raise? can your hand stand to see the free-card if you go for the check-raise but he checks behind?

i think you want to see the turn before deciding. i don't think that your chances of folding him on the flop are better than your chances of folding him on the turn. now, if you pick-up a flush draw, your decision about whether to fold by betting out or check-raising is pretty clear; but if you turn a pair, i don't think you'll like the free-card as much.

i can't tell you whether it was right or wrong to reraise the flop in hand 2. but if you think ahead a little, sometimes the answer about what to do on the flop is made clearer when you consider some of the options on the turn. but if you think he will fold on the flop, go for it. do have a back-up plan though if the aggressive caps with junk because often they do.

[Tommy Angelo]

"Hand 1: Turn: 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Do you

a) bet with the intention of folding to a raise
b)check with the intension of folding
or
c) check with the intention of calling"

My answer: d)check with the intention of raising.

"Hand 2: Flop: 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif.Checked to me."

I checkfold here without spending one erg of energy even remotely considering the options.

Tommy