Baseball - How important is a catcher?

[Boris]

One of the things you about alot is how well a particular catcher can manage the pitchers. Is this BS or is it possible for catchers to actually make the pitchers better?

[Sooga]

[ QUOTE ]
One of the things you about alot is how well a particular catcher can manage the pitchers. Is this BS or is it possible for catchers to actually make the pitchers better?

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It's absolutely possible, in fact some catchers are kept on rosters mainly on their skills to call a good game. Having a veteran catcher, especially on a team with a very young pitching staff, is invaluab.e So it's definitely not BS.

As to the extent of how much it affects a team's record as a whole, that's up for debate. Mike Piazza's catcher ERA has been great throughout his career, but he's consistenly mentioned on the bottom of the list in terms of his value behind the plate.

[andyfox]

Al Leiter told a friend of mine that Piazza costs him 10-15 strike calls a game because of the way he catches the ball. Of course Piazza has been out most of this year and Leiter is walking tons; so take it FWIW . . .

[Dynasty]

How important is a catcher? Are you kidding? Without a catcher, every ball the pitcher throws would go to the backstop and all the runners would advance at least one base and probably two.

[Sooga]

[ QUOTE ]
How important is a catcher? Are you kidding? Without a catcher, every ball the pitcher throws would go to the backstop and all the runners would advance at least one base and probably two.

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Unless your name is Rick Ankiel /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Boris]

I don't completely agree. Alot of the umpires are pretty fat.

[HDPM]

What if they had the "Ankiel Shift?" Say take the second baseman or left fielder and put them behind the catcher and ump to go get wild pitches? Would such a thing be possible? If a pitcher threw enough wild pitches it might be something to think about with runners on base. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Sooga]

[ QUOTE ]
Al Leiter told a friend of mine that Piazza costs him 10-15 strike calls a game because of the way he catches the ball. Of course Piazza has been out most of this year and Leiter is walking tons; so take it FWIW . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish Leiter would shut his mouth and just pitch. Before '98 (i.e. Pre-Piazza), his BB/IP ratio was more or less about .6. From '98 through last year it was about HALF that. And this year, with Piazza gone most of the year, yup, it's back to .6. Leiter's been a good, though never great, pitcher, but to think that Piazza had anything to do with his reaching superstardom is ridiculous. In fact, Leiter's numbers look pretty good when Piazza is around. I've never really cared much for Leiter before, but if what you say is true, I dislike him even more now.

[Ragnar]

[ QUOTE ]
What if they had the "Ankiel Shift?" Say take the second baseman or left fielder and put them behind the catcher and ump to go get wild pitches? Would such a thing be possible? If a pitcher threw enough wild pitches it might be something to think about with runners on base. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It is my understanding that all players except the catcher must be stationed in fair territory. The catcher must be in the catcher's box. I haven't looked at the rule book in years, but there was a book that I read when I was a kid called The Kid Who Batted 1.000 . The premise of the book was that a youngster came up to the majors. All he could do was to foul off pitches, but he could do that until he drew a walk. So ultimately the opponents put all their players in foul territory to catch foul pop-ups and line drives. Eventually he hit a ball into fair territory to win a game (and I think the world series), thus going from the kid who batted .000 (but with 1.000 on base percentage--Billy Beane would love him) to the kid who batted 1.000.

Having way too much time on my hands as a kid, I got a copy of the rule book to see if this could occur, and found out that it couldn't.

So no Ankeil shift--but I do think that Dynasty is wrong in this case. Without a catcher Ankeil throws the ball so hard that when it hits the backstop it will bounce back hard, and the runners will only get one base each.

Ragnar

[andyfox]

Koufax apparently helped Leiter quite a bit, working on mechanics, grips, etc. Leiter was probably not a very good pitcher pre-Piazza (and pre-Koufax), in his prime while Piazza was catching, and is over the hill now.

Managers who are successful often swear by their catchers. Sparky was once asked to compare Thurman Munson with Johnny Bench and said to please not insult either Mr. Munson nor Mr. Bench by making such a comparison: in other words, Munson was not in Bench's class. And Casey Stengel, when asked the secret to his success with the Yankees, said, "I never play a game without my man," by whom he meant Yogi Berra.

Bill James's ranking of the 10 greatest catchers:

1) Yogi Berra
2) Johnny Bench
3) Roy Campanella
4) Mickey Cochrane
5) Mike Piazza
6) Carlton Fisk
7) Bill Dickey
8) Gary Carter
9) Gabby Hartnett
10) Ted Simmons

[Ray Zee]

eliminate the catcher from the game and replace him with a net. as it makes the pitcher now have to cover the infield and home plate. then get rid of the center fielder and have only two out there. now the game becomes interesting like it was in the old days, instead of boring.

[Bill Murphy]

"Without a catcher Ankeil throws the ball so hard that when it hits the backstop it will bounce back hard, and the runners will only get one base each."

Prolly not even that; players in Class D ball are kinda slow... /images/graemlins/wink.gif