Forcing myself to call with KK.

[Huh]

It's a good 10-20 game at the Taj. Two players just sat down, one of them was in this hand.

I get

K /images/graemlins/heart.gif K /images/graemlins/spade.gif

in middle position, There is one limper(OL) and I raise, One guy calls two cold(OGCTC), but that doesn't mean much, the new guy(NG) is in the big blind and calls. $85 in the pot and the flop comes.

10 /images/graemlins/heart.gif10 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif

NG fires out a bet from his blind, OL folds, I raise, OGCTC folds, NG re-raises, and I call. $145 in the pot.

On the turn puts up some brick and a flush draw, NG fires out another bet. I am really considering folding at this point, but I suspect that the new guy might be putting me on AK, so I call.

When the brick hit's the river, I call his river bet also.

Against an unknown player, is this the correct course of action? Anyone fold/raise the flop? How about the Turn?

Comments appreciated, results to follow.

[M.B.E.]

"<font color="purple">Against an unknown player, is this the correct course of action?</font>"

Yes. The way this hand played out, you can't fold on any street except against a known ultra-passive player.

Incidentally, an argument could be made for just calling the flop instead of raising, and then raising on the turn. Or you could even wait until the river to raise.

[elysium]

hi huh
you have a pretty clear turn raise, that's for sure. i'm looking at the post and reading the post, and it looks like your mind-set is on some other post. yes, i see that you're considering folding, but is your mind-set on this hand that you posted?

because you have the wrong mind-set here. you should be kicking yourself for not raising. let me look at again here.......; well, i wouldn't raise the river. you did miss a raise on the turn though. anyway, it looks like you realize you have kings up and not AK. i'd say double-check your cards because you definately have KK.

did you think you had AK?

there's a strong argument for raising the turn with AK.

[Huh]

hi elysium

I think raising the turn could be the worst possible move here. I will likely get called by better hands, and stop worse hands from continuing to bluff at the pot. There is only one over-card that can hurt me, and I would love for this guy to have a smaller pair.
-Huh

[Mike Gallo]

You played it fine, hopefully you didnt lose to A 10 or J 10.

Michael

[Huh]

He had 93off. I guess he put me on AK and was trying to push me around or something...

-Huh.

[Mike Gallo]

Dont you feel great when a player outplays himself.

If you raised the turn, he won't call the turn raise or bet the river.

Good hand.

Michael

[DanZ]

there's no reason to raise on any street - no hand has more than 3 outs except A3, and even with 5 outs, you do better collecting bets than by raising, except on the flop round.
However, most of the time, the opponent will have 0-3 outs, in which case stopping his betting is very expensive.


There's also a reasonable chance you are losing, in which case raising is expensive, unless you will get enough info to fold. In this case, since you don't know the players, you won't get that info, and a flop raise will often be interpreted by an opponent as "I have no ten".

Dan Z.

[elysium]

hi huh
not raising the turn here is a mistake. this opponent may have some back-door draw developing, you will likely get a free river show-down, and you should raise the turn for value. you've got to charge the draw here huh.

[Mike Gallo]

Ely,

Bad advice, I will allow other posters to elaborate why.

Michael

[Philuva]

I am not sure this is a clear call/call on the turn and river. While your calling encourages inferior hands to keep bluffing, there is also a wide variety of hands that will pay off your raises on either the turn or river, including pocket pairs below KK and probably Ax where the x is one of the other rags on the board.

I think a turn raise might be the best option. I know of few people who would 3 bet you on the turn without trips or a full house given this board. So you can safely fold to a 3-bet. bluffs will fold, but i find most players will not continue with the bluff on the river anyway once you have called the flop check-raise and the turn bet. i think this was more of an anolmoly than the standard. i think it was a pretty bad play on his part as it was obvious you were calling him down.

you will most likely get called on your turn raise and the river bet if he has any of the other hands mentioned above.

[worm33]

Huh, My default play here against an un-known is to smoothcall his 3rd bet on the flop and then raise the turn...If he re-raises you can safely fold your hand but if he calls you know you got him and made an extra bet. I would guess that he had qq or jj in this hand.
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[Zele]

Huh suggested why in his first response. This is a classic bluff-induction situation, albeit with a call rather than a check-thru. If it was a draw-friendly board the situation would be different, but here you're only getting action if you're beat.

[Mike Gallo]

If it was a draw-friendly board the situation would be different, but here you're only getting action if you're beat.

Exactly /images/graemlins/grin.gif