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View Full Version : Small pocket pairs in early tournament rounds


DaNoob
08-14-2003, 11:18 AM
What is the best way to play pocket pairs 33-88 early in NL tournaments? I feel like I'm playing these EV- right now and want to fix that leak.

Does position factor in much PF?

Thanks in advance.

Magician
08-14-2003, 11:25 AM
I would limp in but fold to a big raise behind me. If it's a modest raise behind me I will call the raise (say if I already put in 20, it's raised to 60, and I have to call just 40 more).

DaNoob
08-14-2003, 11:45 AM
So that's how I've been playing them, but you hit a set so infrequently, and overcards fall more often than not, that I feel like I'm losing money here.

Would it make more sense to raise PF and drive out overcards?

WizeGuy33
08-14-2003, 11:45 AM
I'd try to play them as cheaply as possible. If you a flop a set early on with a small pp, you could be well on your way to getting a nice chip lead.

Magician
08-14-2003, 11:51 AM
Compare your potential profit to the cost of limping in or calling essentially up to 60 chips (assume 10/20 Pokerstars first round structure).

If you hit your set, which happens once in 9 times, you need to make 180 when you hit for it to be breakeven if you invested 20.

When deciding to call the additional 40, you need to make 360 when you hit for it to be breakeven with the additional 40 (forget the 20 you already put in, that's already "dead money").

So you will either drop 20 or make a bundle when your trips hit (ignoring set over set where of course you could easily lose your whole stack, but it's so rare I don't worry about it).

I think it's very easy to make anywhere from 500 to your opponent's entire 1,500 (assume early rounds) so to me it's positive EV to limp in with them.

PlayerA
08-14-2003, 11:54 AM
These hands are especially good against aggressive players who suddenly limp (AA or KK). Little cards flop and you hit your set, then you get their chips. Always fun to trap the trapper.

Generally, I like to play them when I can see the flop cheaply. Occasionally, I will attempt to steal with them in late position (also consider that it will be better than most random hands). If I don't steal and get heads up, then I proceed with caution. If checked to me after flop, I will make some sort of bet to try win it there (particularly if the game is such that small bets are capable of winning the pot) (unless it looks like a trapping kind of flop). If I don't steal and get multi-way, then I'm ready to dump them.

Mr. Peterson
08-14-2003, 08:56 PM
The idea of raising to drive out overcards is totally wrong. You need to get in as cheap as possible to make a +EV.

By raising you may win the blinds occasionally but who cares blinds are worth nothing at this stage. If not you have magnified your problem. You now face reraises (which you must fold to) or the same overcards on the flop but now you have lost more. Also by raising you drive out players that may have made a second best hand like top pair that would pay you off reasonable when you do hit your set.

So raising preflop with small pairs will increase the cost but minimise the return in most cases. Hardly an ideal scenario.

Magician
08-14-2003, 08:59 PM
OK - was Moneymaker wrong then (at least on a long-term, EV basis) to raise pre-flop with 33.