Diary of an online poker player #4

[GrinningBuddha]

Day 26

Neteller managed to hook up with my bank and I’ve been able to verify my account with them. Praise be! I can now move my money around with reckless abandon. If only I had more to toss about. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

I haven’t had a chance yet to sit down for an extended session, but I have started to play at two tables, which effectively double my play time. My last session was 3 hours and Lady Luck deemed it fit to reward me with $7.50 for the evening.

I was quite disturbed looking at my statistics provided by PartyPoker for that session. After about 80 hands I found my flop percentage was 35%! That just couldn’t be right. I wondered if my percentage was skewed upwards by blinds and the stats weren’t adjusting properly for that, but I assume that everyone else here uses the same stats as well. I’m not a loose player by any means, so I have to attribute this to just an odd session. I did get a lot of playable cards given the game texture, and hit just enough of them to show a profit. I can certainly think of a lot of other sessions where all I seemed to get was K2o and J3o, so I’ll call this one an anomaly. By the end of the night, I was sitting at 33%. I’ll keep an eye on this in the future.

This hand is titled: You CAN bluff at .50/1.00!

We’re briefly 6 handed, and 3 limp to me with A /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif in the BB. I check to see a flop of:

T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I figure this would be a good chance to try my short-handed semibluffing skills. I bet out after the SB checks. Everyone calls. Undaunted, we see the turn of:

8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Backed with the almighty power of the one card open-ended straight, I bet again. I’m called by the uber-fishy SB. He’s a Mr. Any-Two, and will stick around to the river, but is capable of folding if he doesn’t make a good hand there.

River: 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I take a look at the board and try to imagine how that might help him. Failing to come up with anything, I follow through on my grand scheme. SB folds, and I scoop the pot with Ace high.

Thoughts? Clearly, this is not my normal play, but I figured it had a good shot of working in this particular situation, and I had overcards to back it up with if need be.

Bet ‘em if ya got ‘em?

My only bullets of the night. I raise in EMP after one limper. 2 MP cold call, button calls, blinds come along and limper calls. Gotta love this kinda action.

Flop comes Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I like it, even though I don’t have a spade.

Checked to me, I bet and am raised by the player to my left. Folded to limper to my right who cold-calls, I decide to call. My typical play here is to bump it again, but I felt confident that I could rely on a turn bet from the raiser. I wasn’t concerned too much about the caller.

Turn is the 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. Limper checks, I check and raiser bets. Limper folds and I now bump it. Raiser calls. At this point, I figure him for a Q of some sort, or perhaps a strong draw. At this limit, players who pump draws this much are far and few between.

River is the 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. I now beat Q6. Zippy. This player is strong enough that he won’t make that kind of preflop call. I bet, and am called down by A c Q c.

Am I trying to be too fancy here, or is this a good play to have to avoid from being too straightforward? If I had raised the flop, I would have gotten one extra BB, but lost one BB on the turn, so I didn’t make any more money this way. My reasoning was solely for the meta-game. Thoughts?

Total profit after 9 hours of two-table play: $25 That equates to about 1.4 BB/hour/table. So far so good; I look forward to my first rush of great hands. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[lunchmeat]

Good post Buddha. I do have a couple of suggestions about your play. First off, don't be quick to dismiss your flop % as an anomaly. If you think the average number of players per hand is 8 or more, you are almost certainly playing too many hands. Of course, it is possible that luck was the only factor in bumping up your %, but it probably wasn't the only factor. Think of the times you got hands like 44, 76s, or A5s. Did you always have correct odds to play these types of hands?

I like how you played AA. By calling the flop and check raising the turn you destroy the implied odds of drawing hands and punish hands like a pair of queens for an extra bet. Good job.

Lastly, I'd recommend playing just one table. I know some here will disagree with me on this, but IMO being able to fully concentrate on one table makes it much easier to develop your skills.

Good luck and I hope you catch that rush... I hope I catch one too for that matter.

[MrDannimal]

I think my lack of focus at times is one of my leaks, to continue on the single table thread.

I tend to play and then also browse the forums or other website while I'm at it. I know I should be just watching the table, esp. at this point in my poker life, and trying to learn hands and read players. Sometimes I just get bored, but I need to remind myself to focus.

[Bartleby]

Buddha -- One suggestion-- get Poker tracker. It is $25 well spent. It has a category that shows flop % and also flop per centage not in the blinds. Also "see the flop per centage" at each seat. Plus lots of other stats.

[ReRaise]

Im playing the same games, and my flop percentage is in the low 30s usually. Free plays in the bigblind, and completing the smallblind put you at 25%, assuming 8 players per hand. When you add legit hands, its easy to get up into the 30s.

Hand #1... I dont like your semi bluff into 5 players. I guess its okay once in a while, if youre willing to fold to a raise on the flop. Other than that, way to spot the fish. Im no good at that yet.

Hand #2... I prefer to make the flop 3 bets. A reraise tells you that you probably dont have to worry about a spade on the turn making a flush, but you still need to improve. A call tells you that you DO have to worry about a spade, but youre probably ahead, and should bet out on the turn. I just think you can get a better read on him by making it 3.

I hope I dont sound like I know what Im talking about... cuz i dont. I just want to contribute a bit in hopes to learn more.

[GrinningBuddha]

It's definitely on my shopping list Bartleby. Once I get a few more wins under my belt, and can see myself continuing on, I'll order myself a copy.

[GrinningBuddha]

Hand #1... I dont like your semi bluff into 5 players.

Actually, only 3 were in the hand with me, and I was banking on the fact that that small pot size made it unattractive for people to hang around. I felt it was the right combination of pot size, flop texture, and player texture to make the play, but perhaps I just got lucky. This is why I presented the hand. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hand #2... I prefer to make the flop 3 bets.

Of course you do, otherwise you'd have to change your name. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

This was a change-of-pace maneuver for me. I realize that most micro-limit players don't pay attention to plays you've made previously, but this fellow struck me as someone who knew a little about the game. I also didn't want to fall into a play-every-hand-the-same rut, which can be easy to do at this level. Next time, I'll 3-bet it, just for you. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[GrinningBuddha]

An update from tonight:

212 hands - 2 hours and 15 minutes
2 tables of .50/1.00 at Party
6% hands won (could have sworn it was more)
60% of showndown hands won
26% of flops seen
23% of hands won when flop seen

And the best number: 32.5 BB profit.

Had a nice run of cards, as 3 pocket pairs hit their sets on the flop and held up under pressure. Heartbreaker of the night was having my KK cracked by AA. It's been a while since that's happened. I'm very happy with tonight, not only for the money, but I felt that I was making some better pre-flop decisions.

A good example of this happened simultaneously at both tables. In one hand, I was dealt 76s and the other hand had ATo. Depending on the action, I may play these, but decided to pass this time. The 76s would have flopped a flush draw, and missed by the river, while the ATo would have flopped top pair, turned trips, and split with another ATo. I would have made back as much as or slightly less than I would have lost chasing the flush. I guess that's why they call them marginal hands, eh? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[DesertEagle]

Here's another angle on the hand with the Aces...

If the player to your left had QQ, he would probably have made it 3 bets pre-flop, and he didn't, so we can rule that hand out... Agreed?

On the flop, I would have put him on AQ right away (at least I hope I would have, it's always a lot easier when you're not the one in the hand). Two spades would have probably just called, looking to invest less, yet keep the pot juicy by going for the over-calls (of which there are TONS at these levels) and 33 or 66 would have probably waited until the turn to raise.

So you bet, he raised, one cold call and now it's back to you. I like the call here. My question is, would u have checked if the spade hit on the turn? I think to check, have the player to your left bet (who we don't put on spades) and see if the 3rd player raises. Would you lay down AA here? I'd think about it... but I'm not sure...

So.... he's got AQ, and you've got AA and the flush hasn't materialized yet. Not a bad spot to be in. You've got a caller between you, who I would imagine has two spades (what else could he be calling with?).

On the turn you've got to ask yourself if the player to your left will raise again if you bet. If he will, why not go for 3 bets? If you check, and he was on spades, then he might check also. Sure, if you bet he might just call, but if he's got AQ, he might raise you again. If he does, you can make it 3 bets and make the flush draw pay dearly to see that last card (he'll surely stick with it at this level).

I think you played the hand really well, I'm just offering this as another opinion. A check raise is a major show of strength, and there's little chance he'll make it 3 bets if you do this. Given your position, you might consider betting into him again, which also makes the 3rd player call two cold AGAIN.

If you bet into him, you at least get one bet each into the pot. If you check, and he checks, then you've made a pretty big mistake, and you've given the flush draw a free card.

I guess it comes down to knowing who you're playing against....

Let me know what you think of my suggestion here...

[SirFoldsAlot]

Its $40 mow, still a great buy. Not only do you get to analyze your play, you get to analyze people you have played against. Once you get enough players in your db, table selection gets alot easier

[GrinningBuddha]

It's so hard at these levels to put someone on a hand on the flop. They could be betting or raising with almost anything! I have found, however, that only rarely to flush draws get raised with the intent of having a better hand lay down. Usually the only time draws get raised is if the player has a bluff streak in him, and generally they're done with no regard to who else is in the hand, which makes them fairly useless.

So, not only did I have a problem pinning down the raiser, I had no idea what the caller had. I suspected spades, but he was an unpredictable (poor) player, so one never knows. With his fold on the turn, I would guess he had a really weak runner-runner draw. As I said originally, I wasn't too concerned about him unless he started throwing in bets himself.

I guess the only thing I didn't like about the hand was that the check-raise on the turn doesn't make the caller to my right face two bets. If he truly was on a spade draw, or straight draw, he'd be getting a better price to come along (installment package). I think I may reserve these plays for heads-up play, or with really strong hands that don't mind chasers. The thing I wanted to accomplish was to have the raiser feel he was leading until I lowered the boom on the turn, and have people less likely to take shots at me in future hands if I happen to have AK or somesuch hand.

[Cosimo]

I've successfully bluffed at microlimits a few times. It's pretty hard, and I failed time and time again. I don't know if I've gotten better at telling bluff opportunities or if I've just been lucky the last few times, but I like to think the latter.

Beware thinking that you are a winning player based on just a few hours of play! I've had one friend "burn out" because he THOUGHT he was a good player, only to have the fluctuation come back down after a 500-hand rush. I've got about 12,000 hands at 25c-50c, and I only trust results in the 1000+ hand range now (and even then, I have bad days).

Some others have mentioned that "if he had ** he would have 3-bet/raised on the turn/whatever." I haven't found any such hard and fast rules. The scariest raising that I have seen has almost always been 46o against 23s, when both completely missed the flop [exagerated for effect]. As you said, it's extremely hard to put these guys on a hand. I raise with KKs from UTG and the next guy cold calls and then makes a straight when the flop comes 468.

So play your cards. I think both of your hands were well-played.

-Cosimo

[GrinningBuddha]

Thanks for the reality check Cosimo. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm taking things one session at a time, and I feel pretty good about how I've been doing. I have my fair share of beats, both of the bad variety, and of the dominated preflop variety, but I shrug them off (especially at this level), and continue on. If my opponents didn't chase the way they did, I wouldn't get paid off nearly as well on the hands that do stand up.

Like I mentioned in my prelude, I have about 125 hours of B&M play (not much, but it's something) and hundreds of hours of free play under my belt. While most may scoff at most of the free play sites (for good reason), I feel I got out of it what I put into it, which was solid play designed for the texture of the game.

I don't know if any of you ever played IRC poker, but that was a wonderful free play environment where people played relatively sanely, as the cyber-chips there had a prestige attached to them. That's where I first started playing several years ago, and I think it got me off to a good start. Pokibot rules.

I'd love to never experience any kind of extended downturn, but I know it'll happen eventually, and I accept that. In the meantime, all I can do is contribute hands for analysis here and comment on others' hands to keep my game sharp, right?

[FR_Mainiac]

Buddha,

I think I was the raiser in your second hand. Your name sounds familiar. It was at party and I think I was sitting on the top right corner and you were just to the other side of the dealer.

If this was the hand, then i am glad you posted it.

At that time I was playing a couple of tables trying to get enough hands to qualify for the freeroll.

I find it facinating reading about your reactions to my play from your perspective. On a side note, I was running bad up to that point with a number of AK, KK, and AA, getting cracked earlier that night and that along with my rushed play opened up weaknesses in my play last night that you had the good fortune to properly take advantage of.

I can't remember how long I've been sitting at that table but I know I didn't have a read on anyone though I knew you were pretty solid.

Calling my initial raise was probably your best play as I never had you on AA. Prior to you raise I was trying to bully a little since I had TP/TK and there was a flush draw out there. When you raised the 9 I figure you were a typical .5/1 player that plays a lower pair too far and you hit your set. At that point I would normally fold as I figure I had 2 outs and a very slim chance at 5 outs at the most, but I was a little on tilt.

You bet the river and it took me a little while to call (against my better judgement). I expected a set but the aces worked out just as well for you.

[JayCo]

I agree. If I had only $100 to invest in improving my poker, I'd buy HEPFAP, The Theory of Poker, and PokerTracker.

Best $40 I've spent in years (v2.0). I've played 100s of hours online, and after having PT for 2 weeks I'm uncovering some pretty good-sized leaks in my pre-flop game (e.g., I was never sure exactly what pairs I was making $ from in EP, MP, LP).

It's also a convenient way of consistently & accurately tracking wins & losses. I've got only a few 1000 hands in so far, but I'm showing a suprisingly high $/hour earn at a limit than different than I thought would be my personal best. I also figured out I tend to suck at 3am (there are summaries by day & time), but that's another story /images/graemlins/wink.gif

If you're on the fence, download the free version and start requesting/saving hand histories. If & when you do buy, you'll have great data from the get-go.

I'm enjoying your davidross-style story so far... good luck

J

[GrinningBuddha]

If I remember correctly, you and I spoke briefly about the worm that was running rampant, and I gave you (or someone else) instructions on how to activate the Windows XP firewall, which would give you enough time to download the patch. If that was you, then I hope you got it fixed. Cursed worm.

You're probably the first 2+2er I've had the fortune of running into, though I don't think there are hordes of us at .50/1.00.

Whatever the reason for your play, I don't think it was all that bad. Given the typical .50/1.00 opponent, folding to the turn raise normally is the best option, but it's hard to do that with TP/TK against a relatively unknown opponent. Someone who looks solid early on may go on wacky tilt later in the session and turn out to be just as fishy as the rest. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

The play I used there is really more effective against thinking opponents, so I guess I lucked out that I had one on this hand, as you may have folded to my turn bet had I 3 bet the flop. Good to know for when I move up into the slightly tighter games later on.

Thanks for commenting on the hand, I hope to see you again soon! You can't have your money back though, sorry. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone who looks solid early on may go on wacky tilt later in the session and turn out to be just as fishy as the rest.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is exactly correct. At 2/4, I seem to notice players who seem to play well for the first hour and then just start playing terribly for no noticeable reason. It actually throws me off at first as I tend to respect their raises. Soon, I learn that they are on tilt and they almost always tilt away most of their stack. It is kind of strange to witness this.

[FR_Mainiac]

I think you were talking with someone else regarding the worm as i was playing 2 tables for the first time and I had all I could do to do that. I did say at the end of the hand that I was glad an ace didn't hit the river cause i would have lost another bet.

After thinking about the hand a little more, I remember it a little better. One mistake of mine was I thought you were on the BB and were calling my raise with a flush draw. I assumed you had 2 spades until the 9 showed and then I put you on either a set of 9's or Q-9d (which is common for a BB and a little rare from ep, even most fishes). I knew I was pretty much dead and really was hoping for ace even though I had no right to be in the hand. I was surprised to see the aces and was a little mad at myself for acting a little fishy and drawing dead.

No need to apologize for keeping mine...uh,your....money, it's poker and you earned it. I got more value out of your post than what I lost on that hand.

I usually play lower limits online until I build up a bigger online bankroll (so you'll see me at 1/2 and .5/1) and that night I was just trying to crank out the raked hands to qualify for the freeroll.

I'm sure I'll see you online again and i'll make sure i'll say hi!!!

[Cosimo]

Huh, this 2-tables-max thing has be a bit perplexed. I play at UB and play up to 5 tables (as long as they are all full). I think one of the advantages that UB has here is the MiniView(tm) and a wider range of pre-act buttons. For those of you finding a couple tables hard work, have you tried playing at UB and how do you rate the ease of play at the two (w/ regards to interface, not competition)?

-Cosimo

[GrinningBuddha]

For me, 2 tables allows me to get the most hands in while still being able to keep track of how people are playing and maintaining a feel for the games. 3 tables would be detrimental at this point, and anything more than that, even with UB's mini-game interface would kill me. I don't know how you can have any indication of how people play by watching 5 tables at the same time.

I can see how the mini-interface would help, but that's too much info for me to process comfortably. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[rkiray]

There is no way your data can be statistically significant in 2 weeks.

[JayCo]

[ QUOTE ]
There is no way your data can be statistically significant in 2 weeks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are of course, absolutely right. What is interesting is that some assumptions that I thought were very safe about small pairs 22-66 profitability in late position are at least now questionable.

It's not that I think I have answers or concrete conclusions after 2 weeks and <10,000 hands of play, it's more that I have questions about parts of my game I thought I had "already figured out".

And I don't need more than 2 weeks of play to know that I suck after 3am - I just finally have data to show how much.

J