Unlucky, Bad och Sucker??

[Gabriel]

I'm a poker rookie so I need an answer to a situation that happened to me reacently in a low-limit game. I was bring-in with:

/images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3
XX /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ raise
XX /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 calls
XX /images/graemlins/club.gifT calls
everyone else folds (no 3 or K). I call. The Q is a pair of queens my K-kicker made me call.

4:th
XX /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gifK Check
/images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 Check
XX /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif7 Bet
XX /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 calls
XX /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gifK calls
/images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 calls

Maybe I should have bet and hoped that the Q7 raised to make the two other fold??

5:th

XX /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/heart.gifA Bet
XX /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/club.gif2 calls
XX /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 calls
/images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gifK (ME)

What to do? Just call? Drawing to what? I raise! Is that good or bad? Right or wrong? Then the Q7A re-raises. 842 folds and TK9 calls. What can I do now? Fold or Call? I Call! And I called on 6:th And then I folded on the river to a bet AND a raise.

But the questions are. Was my raise to optimistic and was my call a sucker play?

/G

[7stud]

3rd Street:
Raise or fold. If the game was loose and you didn't anticipate being able to get it heads up with the queen with a raise, then you should have folded.

4th:
Fold if your raise didn't get it heads up on 3rd street. Since one of your kings hit the board on 4th street, you should have folded in any case.

5th:
The Ace the queen caught was troublesome for your hand, but I think a raise was in order based on your made hand of kings up. When the queen re-raised, you had some problems. Your bet when you caught the King was saying..."Hey everyone, I have Kings and now it's time to pay the piper.", so when the queen re-raised you had to determine what that meant. Was the queen trying to knock out the drawing hands, so a made hand of queens up had a better chance against your possible pair of kings? Or, was the queen saying, "Hey Kings! I have aces. Rent just went up." Or, was the queen saying, "You couldn't possibly have caught the case king, quit bluffing."?

At that point it was time to take a very close look at the other opponents who called: it looks like one had a club flush draw, and the other hand doesn't appear very threatening--maybe two small pair(if it was a good player, trips would have been a consideration)

6th:
You're just trying to hang on now, and get to the river as cheaply as possible.

7th:
A bet and a raise(by the club flush?). I think anyone who raised the queen had to have better than queens up, and since you had kings up, that leaves aces up or better, so I think you were beaten.

[ARomeo73]

you sould have folded when your king hit on 4th street

[Andy B]

I think calling on third street is OK. It's better to get it heads-up, but a raise is unlikely to knock anyone out. Most players, good and bad alike, having called one bet, are going to call a second. You might get it heads-up if the Queen three-bets, but that would mean that you've put in three bets with the worst hand. Also, if the Queen three-bets, it looks like pocket Aces, in which case your King kicker may as well be a Deuce.

Fold on fourth. Having the King fall is bad, and you don't want to be playing in a multi-way pot anyway.

I think the fifth street raise is good. Call the re-raise and call on sixth. When the river gets raised, though, Kings-up is beaten almost every time.

[patrick dicaprio]

you dont say what limit you are at but your third street play is perhaps one of the most common errors. there is no reason to call here. you shoudl be raising or folding. since you will not likely get it heads up since two players called the raise, you should fold.

once you play i think checking is OK since you are going to get called and are hoping to get a free card or a chance to checkraise. but if you check and get the chance to checkraise and dont do it then you should be checking and folding not checking and calling. it is not enough to make the right play for the wrong reason if you want to improve your game, so if you checked without thinking that you might checkraise if the opportunity arose and the circumstance were right then you need to think about your play a little more.

raising after you get k's up is the right play without a doubt.

Pat

[Gabriel]

Thank you for all your answers. It seems like you all have the same view to the problem. It's probably basic to you to fold a small pair with an overcard kicker, when you can't get it heads-up. But when I was bring-in I saw it as a bargin /images/graemlins/crazy.gif I know rookie-mistake #1.

Some of you then said on 4:th that when one of the kings died I should have folded. What if all 3 and K were still were live?

/G

[7stud]

The object is to get it heads up. If you can't, you should fold. So, on 4th street, if no kings or 3's are out, raise if you think you can get it heads up, otherwise fold.

[Andy B]

Something just occurred to me: if this was a game with some kind of ante and a half-bet bring-in, which is typical of a lot of small on-line games and some live games (including my local room), then you definitely have a call on third street.