should I bet or take a free one

[Mikey]

Here is a hand that came up the other day, and I was a little confused on how to play it.

There are a few questions I would like to ask to see what others think.

I was in a 2-4 game at the Borgota and it was full.

There were about 4 limpers and I limp on the button with
8h6h.

The SB calls, and the BB checks.

The flop is 9h7d2h.

The game is very passive with not much checkraising or raising before the flop or raising on the turn.

It was checked around to me.
Should I bet it or check it, with 6 opponnents in the hand.

The reason I ask is because I still don't have a hand yet, but I do have a mega draw. I don't think that I will get the field to fold, but getting a free card is beneficial.


So here are my questions......

Should I check or bet this hand?

Under what game conditions is it ok to bet?
Under what game conditions is it more valuable to check?

What if the entire table limped and it was checked all the way to me?
What if there were only 5 opponnents?
What if there were 2 opponnents?

What is the best play?

[crockpot]

(as an aside, i think this post is better suited for one of the hold 'em forums)

it is very hard to construct game conditions where it is not correct to bet this hand when it is checked to you in last position. unless someone has a higher flush draw or J8, you have 15 outs to a winning hand and two chances to hit them. you're a favorite to make a straight or flush. i would not only bet with this hand if checked to me, but with the best position i would raise any flop bet unless i thought the raise would drive many people out, regardless of game conditions.

getting a free card with this hand is not beneficial. unless a bigger flush draw or set is out, your hand has a much better chance of winning than anyone else's, so you should be betting or raising for value.

for more discussion on odds, especially for loose games, read Gary Carson's The Complete Book of Hold 'em Poker. there are reviews of many poker books at my site below.

[elysium]

hi mike
bet it every time. it's a value bet. you also want to thin the field a little; get the high singleton flush cards out, and get called by top and middle pairs.

this hand has a wobble on the turn. it weakens moderately on the turn, so usually call, do not raise, and if if it's checked to you, accept the free-card. if the river fails to complete, or counterfeits you, you have perfect position to observe the action before it gets to you. just keep in mind that this hand does great hot and cold from the flop, but the turn should be approached with caution.

on the flop, this hand is so strong, if it's raised to you, reraise every time.

[Dynasty]

Bet this hand on the flop. If you don't improve on the turn and it's checked to you again, you should check.

[Ed Miller]

You bet this hand in virtually all games and all conditions.

[AceHigh]

You should usually bet this strong of a draw on the turn also. You only need 2 opponents for it to be neutral EV, and it would be +EV if there is a chance everyone folds.

[Louie Landale]

You have 15 outs to make a straight or flush. With two cards to go you are a FAVORITE to make at least a straight. From that perspective your hand is better than a pair of Aces against several players. The fact that your actual hand value right now is "9-high" is not relavant or interesting.

If you bet and get one call you are breaking even as far as "betting for value" is conserned. If you get 2 calls or more you are making money. I'd guess that even if you SAW a set in an opponents hand you are breaking even if you cap the flop so long as you get one other player tagging along; making money if two bone-heads tag along.

This is not close at all. Without a doubt your hand is worth betting. Raise if there are already callers between you and the bettor.

Assuming you miss and the board doesn't pair, your 15 outs on the turn break even if you get 2 calls, make money of you get 3 calls. Also, if you got only 1 or 2 calls on the flop your turn bet MAY win the pot right now; great semi-bluff. Realistically check the turn only if you fear a raise to your left, or expect one caller who is sure to pay you off.

Gamble with your big draws.

- Louie

[CCass]

Two different posters mentioned that there are 15 outs for this hand. Can you please explain to me how you get 15 outs?

[JTG51]

9 flush outs + 3 non heart 5's + 3 non heart T's = 15 outs.

[CCass]

Thanks for the response. As usual the ole brain wasn't thinking very clearly (didn't consider that I was double counting the 5&T of hearts).

[JTG51]

NM