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View Full Version : bring the flop back? Bad floor decision?


VeryTnA
08-08-2003, 05:54 PM
UTG calls, Mid calls, Button raises, UTG is thinking and Mid acts out of turn calling the raise. Dealer turns up the flop. Button says "hang on, UTG didn't call my raise". FLOOR!!!
Floor comes over and says bring back the flop and re-shuffle. "UTG? Do you want to call? UTG says YES. Floor says OK now deal a new flop." Check, Check, Button bets, Fold, Fold, Button shows AA. Was bringing back the flop a good call?

Dynasty
08-08-2003, 05:55 PM
The flop has to be brought back. UTG has every right to play his hand but you can't let him see the flop first.

andyfox
08-08-2003, 06:47 PM
Yes, I think this is standard procedure where I play.

Gabe
08-08-2003, 10:06 PM
I see dealers make this mistake alot more frequently on the turn.

M.B.E.
08-08-2003, 11:20 PM
Yes, when the dealer mistakenly deals a card (or cards) before the action on the previous betting round is completed the standard rule is to reshuffle the mistakenly-dealt cards into the deck. Occasionally this will entail some strategy adjustments. For example, suppose the flop contained two 9s, but was then brought back and replaced. The hand progresses and by the turn you have a gutshot straight draw needing a 9. You might be more inclined to stay in the pot then you otherwise would be, because there is a greater chance of hitting your straight -- because now you know that those two 9s (at least) are "live".

Of course there are simpler examples. If you have KhQh, there are three hearts on board, and the Ah has been shuffled back into the deck, then you can proceed as if you have the nuts, not the second-nuts.

Should there be any exceptions to the rule that the mistakenly-dealt cards are brought back into the deck? In my view, yes; I posted a scenario a while ago:

Old post by M.B.E. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=86080&page=&view=&sb= 5&o=)

As an even more extreme example, suppose the action goes down like this: preflop there's a few limpers but the dealer forgets to ask the big blind for his option. The flop is dealt out and one of the limpers says "hey, the preflop action wasn't completed; the flop has to be brought back". The big blind says, "it's okay, I never raise from the big blind". I think in this scenario, even though the preflop action technically wasn't completed, the flop as dealt should remain.

andyfox
08-08-2003, 11:30 PM
You might be right here: with check-raising on the turn, it makes it easier for the dealer to lose track of the action.

VeryTnA
08-09-2003, 01:10 AM
I really expected the floor to make UTG complete the bet.
My thinking was UTG was holding cards, UTG saw the flop, UTG MUST pay up! Thanks for clearing this up!