Card Generator Questions

[Festus22]

I was home all day yesterday with bronchitis so I played $0.50/1 at Pacific for about 8 straight hours. It was truly an abysmal day. I tracked all my starting hands and here's the grim details:

Hands played = 326
% won = 2% (6 1/2 winning hands)
Flops Seen % = 12.4%
Went all the way to the river = 21 hands
Got rivered 9 times

My flop % is usually around 25% or so and when I looked over my starting hand list, it was astounding to see the constant junk I was dealt. I was dealt 22 pairs and flopped 0 sets, made 0 straights, 1 flush and 1 boat. It was an absolute fold fest. I actually was proud that I only lost $31 for the day. And that brings me to my questions,

1. What algorithm do card generators use to deal the cards? Is this some kind of standard or can they differ site to site?

2. Are the 5 board cards already determined at the beginning of the hand or are they generated just prior to the moment they're seen? (I ask this because I folded 6-6 EMP to UTG's raise and the flop had 2 sixes. If I would have called, obviously that alters the hand time line so would I have seen the same flop?) I hear players lamenting that they folded big hands after they see the board but would the act of them calling alter the card flow?

3. I know this might be impossible to answer but how long can one expect a "bad card run" to last? I might think maybe 50 or 100 hands but 326? That seemed excessive.

4. This is also irrational but when you're in the midst of a junk fest, do you do anything different? I changed tables, positions and limits several times, took a few breaks, etc. It seemed like the garbage "followed" me. I know statistically that's not possible but it sure felt like it. It was like to server said "No cards for you, come back - 1 year!!!"

So what are the interworkings of the evil card server?

[PreyOnU]

When I'm getting cold-decked, I always stay in the same seat and make absolutely no changes. Perhaps you are not liberal enough for such a pro-active approach, but trust me, this works....err... Actually, I had a 6 hour no-win streak in a live 6-12 last night (was up $800 prior so no conspiracy theories), so I'll just be quiet now and leave you to it.

[Dynasty]

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3. I know this might be impossible to answer but how long can one expect a "bad card run" to last? I might think maybe 50 or 100 hands but 326? That seemed excessive.

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It can last well past 1,000 hands.

[Stu Pidasso]

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This is also irrational but when you're in the midst of a junk fest, do you do anything different?

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An ass in a hail storm has to sit there and take the pummeling till the storm passes. You must be like the ass.

Stu

[MrDannimal]

As for questions 1 and 2:

I can't say how they online sites work, but I would imagine that there's something similar to a random number generator that randomly orders the #s 1-52 (or some representation of the cards) before each hand with a unique seed (time/date maybe?)

I would imagine that the hand order is fully determined before the hand, so it doesn't matter if they generate the whole board at once or round by round because the cards aren't re-ordered during the hand.

So when the randomizer "shuffles" the cards, the first 20 are dealt out (for a full table) the next 8 cards are already on the top of the deck waiting for the program to read them (assuming the software burns a card, you never see it and it doesn't need to happen because the burn just helps prevent cheating in B&M play which the program can't do).

So once the deck is shuffled, the hand is set. This is exactly the same as B&M, btw. What you do or don't do after the hand starts has no effect on the cards to come. Or at least, that's my take on it (and there's no real reason for it to be otherwise) from a sort-of programmer's standpoint.

[TBone]

First off, it's impossible to have a truly random card generator algorithm by a computer. The way most computers now generate random numbers is to use the date time as the seed, and then call the random number generator a number of times. And as someone already mentioned, they likely generate a number between 1 and 52, representing each card in the deck. To blame a cold streak on the random number generator however is stretching. You have never "blamed" the random number generator when you were running hot, did you?

The generation of the board cards (or the order of the deck for that matter) should be determined before the hands are dealt to most accurately a real card room, but it's probably not a "necessity" that online sites do that.

Just hang in there, you'll get a good run of cards soon.

T

[JohnShaft]

I don't know, do you guys who think the whole deck order is determind before the cards are dealt have any evidence?

My understanding was that usually the board isn't generated until it is needed.

So, all the players cards are determined and dealt.

The players Bet Preflop.

When the Preflop betting has ceased the Flop is determined and dealt.
More betting.
Turn card determined and dealt. Etcetera.

This might not be done in B&M's (well it couldn't be could it?) but for Online play it is MUCH safer. That way no-one can raise preflop with 22 knowing the Flop will come 22A.
In effect it's like the online version of "burning and turning", it stops the players knowing future cards before the betting on the previous rounds ends.

Again I'm not sure this is the case but that is what I have been led to believe. I hope they do it this way...

[nummerfire]

Most sites on their homepage have explanations of what their seeds is and how the procedure is for "shuffling" and "dealing"

Kim

[Max Weinberg]

An ass in a hail storm has to sit there and take the pummeling till the storm passes. You must be like the ass.

Beautiful.

[AceHigh]

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My understanding was that usually the board isn't generated until it is needed.


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At Paradise poker they changed there generator so it would randomly deal preflop. Reshuffle the stub, deal the flop, reshuffle, deal the turn and reshuffle, deal the river. There was a story that some people could guess other players hands based on there cards and the flop and estimating the random seed. I doubt if it was true, but Paradise made it impossible for that to happen.

Not sure how other sites do it.