don't drive out the fish!

[OffTilt]

I posted this on RGP but believe it's crucial enough it needs to be stated again...

Theoretically, the good player's solid play will overcome any amount of bad beats over his career. Playing online it seems to me many players consider themselves "good players" as they are constantly critiquing other people's play and harassing people for putting a beat on them. This is a
HUGE problem, much more so online than in live games.

To you people who do this, you are not nearly as good as you think you are. If you were truly good, you're bankroll would be in great shape despite these bad beats. You would understand the difference between a true bad beat, and someone properly drawing out on you, and you wouldn't
criticize them regardless. One person is making a good play, the other is making a play that has historically padded your bankroll. Do you hear the casino bitching and moaning everytime someone has a winning night playing
roulette or blackjack? Of course not, these "bad beats" (guys beating the odds) don't bother them, because these are the same people making them rich.

I think a lot of you people criticizing others are doing so out of frustration because you are not winning, and you are blaming "bad beats" rather than your own play. Many of these people have the KNOWLEDGE to be good players, but not the DISCIPLINE. These are the guys who can't lay
down KK when an Ace falls against a field of 5 callers, or can't lay down AKs because they are frustrated it didn't hit.

Stop criticizing bad play, if you are a truly disciplined player you should encourage it. We need to foster an environment full of fish attempting bad beat after bad beat. The fish are generally a friendly bunch "just looking to have a good time", not to play in a hostile
environment. Certainly stop criticizing good play. "Nice catch" should be the harshest words spoken at the table. Keep a friendly atmosphere and let's keep bleeding the fish.

O-PG

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Start winning hundreds at Texas Holdem with Power Holdem+
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[Wake up CALL]

I read similar posts all the time and shake my head in wonder. They all start out by saying "Please don't scare the fish away", then the same poster calls the scary man a fish as well. You can't have it both ways. Either a fish is acting scary and you want him to stay or he is not a fish. Please make up your mind when criticising those who complain. Are they fish or not?

[smd]

I would say the 'scarers' are average players who have a grasp of good hands, pot odds, etc. But they get mad when their 'good' hand gets sucked out on and start berating the bad player. I'd say I would rather have him leave than the players he's berating.

[Jim Easton]

[ QUOTE ]
You can't have it both ways.

[/ QUOTE ]

He isn't exactly calling the "scary man" a fish. He's saying the scary man isn't a good as the scary man considers himself.

[ QUOTE ]
Are they fish or not?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, they aren't. They are mediocre players that don't understand where their profits come from. While you make money from them, you make even more money from the fish. Therefore, you don't want them to scare away the fish.

[oddjob]

yah, this is one of my pet peeves with other players.

i just think, 'what you don't want them chasing their 2 outs?'

the way i dealt with bad beats in the past, was counting all the bad beats someone put on me, and then i count all the times that player has payed me off, and it's not even close.

[OffTilt]

Thanks Jim and SMD, couldn't have said it better.

While these people do drive some fish either out of the game, or into educating themselves, the main problem I have with these people is they lack common courtesy and are antisocial. None of them would be pulling that at a live game in a casino. Too many people get awfully bold, opinionated, and obnoxious behind the anonymity of the internet.

OffTilt

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Start winning hundreds at Texas Holdem with Power Holdem+
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[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
None of them would be pulling that at a live game in a casino.

[/ QUOTE ]

You obviously haven't played a whole bunch of poker in casinos...

[Yardbird]

[ QUOTE ]
We need to foster an environment full of fish attempting bad beat after bad beat. The fish are generally a friendly bunch "just looking to have a good time", not to play in a hostile environment. Certainly stop criticizing good play.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can call me a curmudgeon later; but, that begs the question "Why are you posting this?"... You're criticising fish here too (they're the ones that don't realize they're not as good as they think they are and consequently blame chasers for their bad beats) no? Now there may indeed be no fish here; but there may also be some 2+2ers who fit the description... Arguably, you're preaching to the converted; because if fish are surfing this forum, the intelligent ones won't be fish for long, and the dumb ones won't pay attention anyway. If you want to rant on an even money topic, do it on your own web-site and don't waste our time. I don't mean to go off on a rant here; but... /images/graemlins/wink.gif Dennis Miller has always been kinda funny to me. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ QUOTE ]
"Nice catch" should be the harshest words spoken at the table. Keep a friendly atmosphere and let's keep bleeding the fish.


[/ QUOTE ]

Now that I have to agree with. That's all you needed to say. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Yardbird]

[stripsqueez]

i emphatically agree that rudeness to any player at the table in particular the crap players is bad

players who feel the need to give "lessons" boldly stating whats right and whats wrong normally have a limited understanding of the game in any event - perhaps ironically it is usually the good players who are less certain about what is "right" and border on displying self-doubt and uncertainty when talking about the game - because they have an understanding of how complex and hard the game is

[OffTilt]

I am not preaching to the converted, I am certain there are many players on 2+2 who while not fish, are not as good as they think they are and do a lot of berating to inferior players inspiring them either to quit or educate themselves.

Don't waste your time? I clearly indicated what my post was about in the subject. If you weren't interested, no one made you click on it, read it, and respond not just once but twice.

Perhaps I should check all my thoughts with you ahead of time to make sure you approve?

Or perhaps you were making an innocent reference to some Dennis Leary joke I am unaware of and I am flying off the handle but I find that statement ("don't waste our time") offensive.

OffTilt

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Start winning hundreds at Texas Holdem with Power Holdem+
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[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
None of them would be pulling that at a live game in a casino.

[/ QUOTE ]

No they couldn't pull the stuff online like at a live casino, you're right....because at a live casino, you see phsyical tantrums that nearly lead to violence. This can't happen online. Yes, they get thrown out but I have seen it happen.

[SoBeDude]

You are 100% right about this.

And I have to admit, when I'm taking beat after beat in a session I open my mouth. I need to curtail this.

And you're also right about this being an online phenomenon. When I see horrible players in my live game I keep my big yammer shut!

-Scott

[DesertEagle]

I agree completely....

chasers are great... I've been playing a lot of $.50-1 lately, which on my Bonus Whore tour, and I'm winning at an incredible rate (in terms of BB's per hour) because of all the chasing.

Sure, I had AA, floped a set and got run down by a runner-runner straight. But why bother complaining about that one hand??

I agree it's easy to lose your cool while taking beat after beat. It took every ounce of will-power I have to not lash out at the guy who called T2o under the gun because he "had to play Doyle" and beat my pocket aces.... lol...

I just try and laugh it off, and say to myself "keep calling a**hole"...

The truth is, I'd much rather play in the games where 5 or 6 players are chasing all the way to the river than play in a game where you never get paid off when you do flop a monster.

For example, I had AA UTG last night in a $1-2 game on Empire. I raised, and 6 players called.... 6!!! the flop came AKK, and I check (maybe they'd put me on JJ or QQ, or maybe they're just not paying attention at all) MP player bets, call-call, I raise, call-call... are you kidding me?? 6 players see the turn, which was a blank, and I bet out again and get 3 callers... 4 players to the river, which is a blank again... I show down and win, I didn't even bother to see the hand history, I just didn't care...

The moral of the story is that I won a monster pot (by $1-2 standards) and I surely would not have gotten paid off against tough players. This was one of the situations where I had almost all of the cards, and the chasers were drawing dead, yet still they chased...

That's the beauty of the chasers... so leave them alone, stack your chips to the ceiling, and say "nh" when they show you 7's full with 75o /images/graemlins/smile.gif