Very Saddened by John Walker Lindh Plea.....

.....as a parent, it seems a very severe penalty for the actions of a dumb, confused, screwed-up kid from a broken home. As other parents have seen with the kids who have ended up in cults, these organized religions, like the pedophile priests, prey on the young and vulnerable. That JWL embraced radical Islam vs a more peaceful cult, is a very sad twist of fate.


....as an American, and supporter of our military, it seems barely an appropriate penalty given the death of CIA officer Mike Spann. However, since we had no absolute proof of JWL's role in his death, it's probably a just penalty.


And despite buffoon attorney general Ashcroft's statement that this was "a great victory in America's war on terrorism" (funny how he sounds like an American version of an al-Qaeda spokeman), this episode leaves me feeling quite hollow. In the early reports from CNN, I didn't see any mention of whether there could be any parole - did anybody see or hear about possible early release?

I couldn't agree with you more. I didn't see if his two ten-year sentences will run concurrently, or consecutively, or when JWL might be eligible for parole, but I can't think this is a "great victory".


Tom D

the funny thing is the guy had a real good chance of getting off.


about the cia guy, i just cant believe it. it was guys like him that trained the latin american death squads to torture nuns and stuff. only god knows what atrocities that guy personally committed.


brad

Umm...how are you going to try and equate banging on a tambourine in an airport and chanting "hare krsna" with strapping an automatic rifle to your body and going into battle against YOUR OWN COUNTRY!!?


To say that he was a confused cultist is assinine. The fact IS he was among a contingent of troops that committed the cold blooded mob-frenzied killing of an american. He was interviewed by Americans and never ONCE said, "Oh..umm..my love of Islam and quest for spiritual enlightenment has gotten me to this place, where I am involved in armed battle against my fellow Americans. I hereby admit I was wrong, was misled and I will be more than willing to tell you everything I know about this maniac Bin Laden and the bastards that serve him." No, instead he pretended he couldn't even speak english and remained mute throughout his taped interrogation. And even after events unfolded and he was removed from his "brainwashing" environment, he still did not fathom the grievous crimes he committed. No, instead he was spouting to anyone with a microphone how the U.S.S. Cole attack was "justified" and that he was aware of the World Trade Center attacks and he was, in effect, attempting to rationalize them.


It is no consolation to any American that he was too gullible, too young, too stupid or too ignorant to NOT be found doing what he was doing...waging war against his own country. I, too am saddened by his plea..it means he will one day see the light of day. I wish he would have been taken to trial and found guilty of the charges and sentenced to life without the possibility of parole.

Stop trying to rationalize his treason. His actions were unpardonable and he should be shackled for the remaining 60 or so expected years of his life and be forced to think of what he did and the people it affected and the country he knifed in the back.

No parole in the federal system. You get a sentence and do it. Sometimes there is mandatory supervised release after a prison term though I think. But no parole. He'll do 20.

.....you never made any mistakes at 19.

.....you see the world so clearly in black & white, right & wrong

.....you know what its like to come from a completely fucked-up disfunctional family


I am in awe. Do you have kids?

My sentiments exactly. It doesn't take much imagination to envision maybe a nephew getting caught up in something like this. So many kids are off the deep end these days - just go downtown in any city in America and take a look around. It really is a stressed out world with plenty of evidence that our American way isn't without blame.

".....you never made any mistakes at 19.

.....you see the world so clearly in black & white, right & wrong

.....you know what its like to come from a completely fucked-up disfunctional family "


wrong on all three counts, Wogga. Why am i not surprised.


1. I did make mistakes at 19 they just did not amount to TREASON.


2. I see the world clearly, unlike you, Mr Rose Tinted Glasses


3. I came from a dysfunctional family..and I and most of my siblings have managed to overcome it make successes of our lives.


So rethink your opinions and get your head out of your...errmm...Mason might not like what I was about to type.


see ya and wouldnt wanna be ya!


desire

i thought it was ten years x 2 served concurrently..out in 10..???

Not sure. Stories I read say 20. One story mentioned the possibility of good time, max 3 yrs after court approval on 20 year sentence. I don't know much about federal sentences and want to keep it that way, but in general no parole. Give me friendly old state court where you make up the rules as you go along. Too many rules and guidelines in those well-appointed federal courtrooms.;-)

so you think this kid committed treason by fighting against the northern alliance but clinton was a good guy and father figure for giving all sorts of military technology (mirv, nuclear stuff) to china, right?


brad

....think I should take my head out of my ass. I don't consider that a personal attack because this is a confusing situation to me (and apparently some other posters BTW). You didn't answer my question about having any children. I do. I have 3. My 24 yr old son was on the 24th floor of the North Tower when the 1st plane hit. After the 2nd plane hit, he ran. All telecommunications were unavailable into and out of NYC. I didn't have any communication with him until after 3PM when he finally crossed over to NJ from NYC. Theses were 7 of the longest hours of my life. I have no use for the scumbag terrorists - but I don't put this kid into that neat little terrorst traitor box that you do. It's not so black & white to me. It doesn't make me any less an American than you. Just means I see it slightly differently, and not in rose colored glasses - Dr Wogga would never be caught dead in rose colored glasses. Even mauve makes me cringe. Dark blue, green - but rose. Barfff!

I am very happy that your son and all the survivors of those terrible attacks are here with us today. God bless him, them and their families.


I do see a connection between religious fanatics being led around by the nose by these supposed religious leaders. These fakes profess to be in the service of God while strapping explosive belts around the waists of teenagers that are too naive to wonder why the old guys aren't the one pulling these homicide missions themselves.


John Walker Lindh became a minion for these hatemongers, in the best case scenario.

Tell me, when he was being interrogated by American personnel in that prison camp and not only playing dumb, but willingly allowed himself to be led back to the cells with the other terrorists, how can you still conclude he is not himself a terrorist? He had ample opportunity to state his case of being a misled youth too dumb to NOT shoot at fellow Americans on a battlefield.


I never suggested that you were less of an American as I...not even John Walker Lindh is less of an American than I..and therein lies the reason he should be brought to trial and forced to accept full responsibility and whatever punitive consequences may follow.

He IS an American and he was in the service of terrorists, at their beck and call..hence he is also a terrorist. I still can't get the image of the Taliban beheading people in the soccer stadium in front of women, children and the rest of the world. This is the bunch of jackals he chose to throw his gun in with. There is no excusing him or his actions.

.....let me play devil's advocate and try and make you see a different viewpoint.


If we both agree this was an eff-ed up kid from a broken home, what clear-thinking parent is going to allow a 16, 17 yr old kid to travel to Pakistan and the middle east to study Islam without any kind of supervision? Clearly a screwed up premise to begin with. Now the kid is over there, makes a bad choice or two or 3, gravitates towards some radical assholes and the next thing you know, is in with the Taliban. now what? They ship his ass to the front line - what's he going do about it? Get a lawyer? Hold a press conference? How exactly could he even begin to protest at this point? This is, after all, Taliban-controlled Afghanistan we're talking about now.


Let's also say he really did became disillusioned after hearing about the WTC/Pentagon suicide bombings - and let's be honest here - there's no way we can be sure this is true. If this was true, again, what's he supposed to do? Make a run for it? To where? Wave a flag at the American planes bombing overhead and turn himself in? How exactly does a 19 yr old kid extract himself from this battlefield situation - which admittedly he got himself into - without getting shot in the back or hung?


The point about what he told or didn't tell Mike Spann, I'm not sure about. Would he have told Mike Spann to get him the eff out of there and back to his parents if he thought it was safe to do so? I don't know. I don't think you do either. Hopefully, JWL will speak to that publicly at some point - but who knows if his 'tell-all' won't be spun by "lawyer-speak" and politically-correct story-telling 101?? I just can't be sure.


I am sure about this though. JWL's parents are fucking scum. I have no problem saying this in all conscience. They are the classic high-falooting a-holes who didn't have time for this kid, so they sent him off to get him out of their hair. Their grandstanding after he was caught is nothing more than affront to every decent person's senses that this ISN'T the way to bring up children in this, or any day and age. May both his parents rot in hell.


Not that it's any of my business, but you still didn't answer if you are a parent yourself.

"Let's also say he really did became disillusioned after hearing about the WTC/Pentagon suicide bombings - and let's be honest here - there's no way we can be sure this is true."


Yes, there is a way that we can be sure that this is true. By reading his own words as he tried to rationalize the U.S.S. Cole and the U.S. Embassy in Africa attacks in emails to his father. His emails are clear, concise and reveal his devotion to the brand of fanaticism that is embroiling much of the world in terrorism today.

He didn't have to "make a run for it" as you state. By his own account, he was not shadowed and was to the contrary, allowed free access to come and go as he pleased, even making trips back to the U.S. He also had access to computers via internet cafes. At no time did he do anything but champion the cause of these maniacs, ending in his being captured fighting his own countrymen.


"Would he have told Mike Spann to get him the eff out of there and back to his parents if he thought it was safe to do so? I don't know. I don't think you do either"


Yes, if he was truly a lost soul caught up in something that got him in way over his head, I do believe he would tell Spann that he was an American and to please segregate him from the others so he would be safe while being debriefed.

If he was somewhere he didn't want to be and fighting against Americans, I do believe he should have, would have and could have told the Spann and the other American officer interrogating him who he was, how he ended up there and exactly everything he knew about those maniacs he was aligned with. He didn't once make a move to reveal his identity until the water was up around his chin in that dank cellar and he had lost count of his fellow taliban buddies that were floating by him, drowned like the rats that they were. To me it is clear that he made a decision to betray his country, that he had ample opportunity to expose who he was, do what he could to try and mitigate the damage he already had become a part of. Instead he was filmed on a stretcher, whimpering every time a medic attended one of his minor boo-boos and gasping into a reporter's microphone that he was aware of the WTC and he thought it was justified.


I don't believe blaming his parents for his adult actions is valid. JWL showed above average intelligence. Too bad he used it in such a deplorable way...to his own demise.

".....[I guess]you know what its like to come from a completely fucked-up disfunctional family "


Dr. Wogga is right. As is copied below from the Washington Post, Lindh comes from the most horrific background imaginable. Poor kid never had a chance and cannot be held responsible for his actions, due to the rage that must, er, rage inside him at all the abuses and injustices he has suffered.


I'da been one pissed off ten year old, too, had I been forced to eat a veggie burger in a hot tub next to an old hippie talking about feng shui.


****


Born in Takoma Park in February 1981, Lindh is the second of three children. His father, then a social worker, and his stay-at-home mother named him John partly in homage to Beatle John Lennon, who had been killed by a fan two months earlier.


His father worked as a clerk in the Justice Department during the day and attended Georgetown law school at night. Lindh attended Kensington Parkwood Elementary School, where he was put in the gifted and talented program.


When Lindh was 10, the family traded the white-marbled columns of Washington for the redwood groves of Marin County, a wealthy enclave outside San Francisco, where his father, who had become a lawyer, was transferred.


Home to graying hippies and Silicon Valley plutocrats, Marin is known for the hot tub, the veggie burger, feng shui and other New Age fads.


Lindh attended an elite high school for self-directed students; it did not have classes. He studied world cultures and wrote poetry. "The Autobiography of Malcolm X" had a particularly powerful effect on him and fed a growing interest in Islam.


At 16, Lindh dropped out of school, and he soon converted to Islam. He changed his name, put on a long white robe, dumped his rap CDs and began worshiping at the Islamic Center of Mill Valley.


His parents -- who separated soon after his conversion -- were supportive of his spiritual quest, even after he advised them of his desire to study in Yemen. He said he wanted to learn a dialect of Arabic necessary to read the Koran in the original language.

first i think the guy is either a creep or brainwashed or whatever. its not like i think hes a good guy.


but the fact is he wasnt fighting against americans. thats the bottom line.


in any event he was fighting against n.a. before america even got involved. well, actually, US supported the taliban. thats right, the US supported the side this kid was on up until the last minute, then switched and supported the northern alliance.


brad

Of course it us sad and tragic. The big problem is the anti-US violence involved and the fact that he still seems to believe in it. What can you do with someone like that.