15-30: 5 hands vs same opponent

[Clarkmeister]

Or...."not all hands occur in a vacuum"...Or, Clark is overthinking things and posting something entirely too long.

Game is 15-30 at Commerce. It tends towards aggressive, but if several limp early, its usually 6 or 7 ways for 1 bet, maybe 2. If folded around to MP, its gonna be 3 ways for 2 or 3 bets. Good mix of players:

Seat 1: The 2nd tightest player I have ever seen (happens to be Asian, go figure).
Seat 2: Tight Aggressive Chinese woman who is always at Commerce when I am.
Seat 3: A very solid but overaggressive African American player who definitely can read hands. His overaggression occurs when it is folded to him preflop, where he raises a huge range of hands. Postflop I would say he has the aggression of a Typical TwoPlusTwoer (TTTr).
Seat 4: An overaggressive white grandma who loves to 3 bet isolation against seat 3.
Seat 5: A fairly straightforward Asian kid on my right.
Seat 6: Me
Seat 7: A cantankerous middle aged white guy who is falling asleep from time to time and isn't a factor ever.
Seat 8: and a pure loose passive who defends his blinds with almost anything and always has what he is representing when he raises postflop.
Seat 9: My main opponent:

My main opponent is a young Asian player who I suspect views himself as tossing off the illusion of action. His preflop raises are very ABC, maybe even tight, he rarely gets out of line here. But he will defend his blinds with literally any two cards for one more bet and is very vocal about this fact. He is also capable of coldcalling with dominated hands. His postflop play tends towards straightforward, with the deception coming from the wide range of holdings he likes to defend with. He also remembers every beat he takes all day, and whines endlessly about them, despite winning several huge pots with some serious miracles. He likes to ask opponents if they have "it", and has folded twice when his opponent said he did (opponent shoed "it" both times). We'll call him Andy9, because...well...I heard someone else call him Andy and he was in seat 9.

Anyways, here come 5 hands all of which involve Andy. Feel free to comment on any of my play, as I would appreciate feedback on any (all) of them. I'll post hand 1 here, and the rest of the hands in responses to this post, just to break it out without starting 5 threads.

Hand 1: Ala Dynasty, I open limp UTG+1 with Ac4c, 4 limpers including Loosey, Andy and TTTr. SB completes, and BB (player who leaves after this hand) raises. All call. 7 to the flop for 7BBs.

Flop: Kc 7c 6c. Checked to me, I bet the nuts, Loosey and Andy call, TTTr raises from LP, folded to me, I ponder confronting Loosey and Andy with 2 cold, but 3-bet anyways, Loosey folds.

Andy pauses, looks at me and says "do you have the flush?". I skrunch up my face and give me "hell no" look and say "nah". Andy calls, TTTr calls.

Turn: Jd. I bet, Andy calls, TTTr raises, I 3-bet.

Andy looks at me, says again "Are you *sure* you don't have the flush?". I say to him "forget about me, what do you think *he* has (I nodded towards TTTr). Andy pauses, says "small flush" and coldcalls 2. TTTr calls.

River is 3h. I bet the nuts, Andy folds a the Qc face up, TTTr calls and my hand is obviously good. Andy starts telling me he's going to get me for lying to him and TTTr tells his neighbor that I "tricked" him on the flop as he folds his Jc9c.

Hand #2 in next post. All comments welcome.

[Clarkmeister]

Straighforward kid in seat 5 openraises in EMP. This means a "normal" EMP open raising hand, whatever that is. I 3-bet with AKo. Andy coldcalls on the button saying "I owe you for tricking me", blinds fold, SK calls. 3 to the flop for about 5.5BBs.

Flop: Ac Qs 5d. SK bets, I raise, Andy coldcalls, SK calls. 3 to the turn.

Turn: Jh. Checked around.

River: Before it comes out, SK mutters "I've got to stop missing bets" then bets when the 2d comes. I call. Andy asks for time and raises. SK calls, I ask for time. I look at Andy and say "3-4?" and finally fold. Andy gleefully tables 34o to beat SK's AJo. TTTr asks me if I had pocket KK. Andy then starts talking about how he told me he was gonna "get me". I say nice pot and mean it.

[Clarkmeister]

Andy openraises in EP. As I posted in the initial description, this means a good hand. 3 coldcallers including TTTr in LP. I call in my SB with Ah8h, BB calls. 6 to the flop for 6BBs.

Flop: Kh Js 7h. Checked to Andy who bets, folded to TTTr who raises, I checkraise 3-bet, Andy calls, TTTr calls. 3 to the turn.

Turn: Th. I make my flush and Bet-call-call.

River: 3c. I bet, Andy calls, TTTr reluctantly folds. Obviously my hand is good and Andy shows AKo. I wanted to checkraise the turn, but no way can I count on TTTr betting with that turn card coming.

[Clarkmeister]

Andy open limps, Grandma raises on the button, SB folds, I 3-bet, Andy and Grandma both call. 3 to the flop for 5BBs.

Flop: Ts6c5h. I bet, Andy raises, Grandma folds, I 3-bet Andy calls.

Turn: 3s. I bet, Andy calls.

River: 9d. I bet, Andy calls. My hand is good and he doesn't show.

[Clarkmeister]

I raise a new CO poster with As7s. Andy defends his BB, poster calls.

Flop: KsQs8c. Checked to me, I bet, Andy calls, poster folds. 2 to the turn.

Turn: Th. Check-bet-call.

River: 6d. He checks, I bet, he looks at me, hesitates, and folds.


Hope this wasn't too boring.

[rtrombone]

Is this guy pretty dark-skinned with thick black glasses? Did he talk nonstop at the table? Was there a girl sitting behind him (I think his wife)?

[Sooga]

[ QUOTE ]

Seat 1: The 2nd tightest player I have ever seen (happens to be Asian, go figure).


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I'll bite.... who's 1st tightest?

[Clarkmeister]

Hehe, no, not you bud. Its an old white guy with white hair named Jerry who is a Vegas mid limit regular.

[Clarkmeister]

I'd say average skinned, maybe a little dark. Glasses, but not thick, and he only wore them part of the time. No girlfriend. Very chatty, like I said, constantly talking about his beats. Kind of spikey very full head of hair. Mid 20's maybe.

[Sooga]

[ QUOTE ]
Hehe, no, not you bud. Its an old white guy with white hair named Jerry who is a Vegas mid limit regular.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, I knew it wasn't me... I'm damn near a maniac /images/graemlins/wink.gif I was just curious who #1 was.

[elysium]

hi clark
when your opponent asks you to verbalize about your hand, he is listening for voice stress. he may be sensitive to voice stress so try not to say anything. after a while he will stop asking. never answer. your answer can only hurt you and help him. just stare at the pot.

[Josh W]

I'm guessing you played this hand perfectly. It would be easier to say if we knew what you held, though /images/graemlins/smile.gif

(I play an overpair or set this way, which is what I'm guessing you had).

J

[hillbilly]

i'm quessing coffeehousing ADDS close to one big bet per hour to clarks game, and at least 4 big bets on this hand alone....i agree though that mere mortals such as ourselves can possibly damage our results somewhat attempting it...

"just stare at the pot" lol, why not just tell him no beer drinking either and by the way that he should wear a suit and a tie to the game as well?

[Clarkmeister]

OOPS! Sorry bout that, I had KK.

[Maroon]

If the kid really is "straightforward," couldn't you muck on the river (before Andy's raise) and save a BB? What could he have that you're beating? Or did you think that you would chop the pot with him?

[JimRivett]

Well, it sounds like you had a good session, both win wise and entertainment wise.

You know what? I feel that some of the better players in Los Angeles are young Asian guys. These guys are tight aggressive and can be very tricky especially in the latter stages of a hand. This fact is sometimes overlooked because of the large number of Asians playing and because a good portion of that number are either loose or loose aggressive.

btw are in town right now or did this hand happen some time ago?

Regards,
Jim

[Georgia Peach]

So, it's okay to generalize about one race or another when it comes to their poker playing styles?

If so, how would you describe the play of white people?

[bruce]

Sounds pretty straightforward to me. I like your bet on the flop when you figure Andy will bet and you are now headsup increasing your chances of winning. I prefer leading on the turn. There is too strong a likelyhood Andy
might not bet for you. Why get fancy and screw around?

Bruce

[bruce]

Against goofballs I still feel it's tempting to make an overcall on the river. Obviously you were there and its hard to translate body language into a post, but I have no doubt I am way ahead of the game with my river overcalls and its not even close. But to be a contrarian it was raised and then called so maybe folding is the best course of action, close still in my humble opinion.

Bruce

[bruce]

Well played. Gambling on the flop against goofballs is the best course of action. You appear like one of the boys and they are totally confused when you have a real hand on the flop, ie set, overpair, etc. What were you going to do on the turn if you don't get there?

Bruce

[bruce]

I don't see how you can check the river, but I suppose Ace high still may have been the best hand, but nevertheless I would bet virtually 100% of the time. I would hate for a bozo to turn over bottum pair or pocket Treys. That would make me sick.

Bruce

[andyfox]

"Kind of spikey very full head of hair"

Whew, for a second I thought it might have been me.

[andyfox]

Mike L. to the contrary, I've always thought the best approach when one flops the nuts is to hit them over the head with the biggest hammer you can find. You never know when someone has flopped the 2nd nuts and they may give you all kinds of action, especially in La-la land, where they assume that, since they would have slow-played with the nuts, you can't possibly have them.

[andyfox]

Anybody like a check-raise on the river here?

[ACBob]

Clark,

Fairly straightforward. Big multi-way, betting straight out and reraising when you get the chance.

I like your player descriptions.

Bob Lewis

[Clarkmeister]

Lets see. Of the 4 asians, they were described as tight, tight aggressive, straightforward and tight with preflop raises but otherwise loose.

Sure seems like stereotyping to me. Give me an f'n break.

[Clarkmeister]

"If the kid really is "straightforward," couldn't you muck on the river (before Andy's raise) and save a BB? What could he have that you're beating? Or did you think that you would chop the pot with him? "

I almost did, but since I checked the turn, there is no way that he can put me on AK, so I have to call since he may simply think that his ATs, or some such is good.

[Clarkmeister]

I'd bet the turn if I missed. If I check, it can easily get bet and raised to me, but by betting its very rare that I'll get raised again. I find that betting tends to insure that I only have to pay 1 bet to see the river.

[Clarkmeister]

I was in town last weekend for a friend's housewarming party. I played Thursday night and Sunday, but sadly didn't see any 2+2ers there.

[Clarkmeister]

I think that given my previous hands against him, he'd even muck a queen in that spot, on the river but I could be wrong. I mean, given the previous hands, how would you like a queen against me on that board?

[rharless]

I personally prefer the 5-thread approach. One thread makes it confusing to follow the conversation/thoughts on one specific hand.

You sure do flop well!

[cosmo kramer]

Well played. The only hand that he could have that you beat at this point is KK, and if he does have that the free card won't hurt you. As for Andy, from this hand he seems like the kind of guy I would like shooting for me if he's gonna call with that.

[rharless]

What is the reasoning for checking the turn? I would be betting the turn with two opponents, but I'm sure that you have good reasons for checking it.

[JTG51]

What is the reasoning for checking the turn?

Clarkmeister most likely put his opponent on a good Ace when he raised preflop then bet the flop. With the J on the turn Clarkmeister is running out of good Aces that he beats.

[Georgia Peach]

"The 2nd tightest player I have ever seen (happens to be Asian, go figure)."

Sounds like stereotyping or at the very least empirically arrived at conclusions based on experiences in poker rooms. I interpreted it to mean that you think Asians are normally not tight comparatively speaking, which is categorizing an entire group of people and how they play the game.

I'm just curious if 2+2ers actually seen a trend in how certain races play the game?

Besides, maybe I just mis-interpreted your script. I apologize if I did.

[elysium]

hi hill
that's only if clark is giving away info about his hand; and that is clark's office hill. i just have a feeling that clark would rather not respond to questions that very well could be inappropriate. if clark were being asked a question about any other topic other than the hand he is currently involved in, that's totally different. and clark hasn't indicated that he asks his opponents about their holding. now if clark did that, then of course he is granting permission for others to as well. but i just don't think clark asks his opponents questions about their holdings to analyse for voice stress.

[cosmo kramer]

A straightforward preflop raiser raises: AA-JJ, maybe 1010, AK, AQ, AJs. Clark beats only one hand, KK, and is tied with AK, so a check is the best play.