UBERLEAK?

[blomkeen]

Hello all.

Background: I play a lot of the lowlimit ($10+1 and under) sit-n-gos or multitable tourneys. I usually do ok by playing ridiculously tight until about 50/100 (mostly Pstars tournies), figure out who all is passive, and then go on a steal binge until reraised, called on the flop, etc.

I think I am a bit too aggressive sometimes with respect to accepting where I am in the tournament and taking on bigger stacks. I can't help keeping the notion of "get it all in with the best hand, try to avoid coin flips" running thru my head. I've only won 2 of these at least 200+ entrant tournies out of about 80 tries, plenty of cashings and final tables.

Bad beats of course prompted this garbled question: do you take on a big stack and go allin when you are very confident that you have a large edge, even tho you are also confident that the way you are playing overall would give you a good chance for a strong finish? Is this a simple EV question and I'm a cretin? I know this depends on the blinds, where you are, the type of big stack, etc. I guess I want a "general" answer if there is such a thing.

I don't wanna whine about the hand, but if you need context for this question, lemme know.

thanks!

[fnurt]

You absolutely, positively cannot be afraid to put all of your chips in with a big edge.

Now, post a specific example, and I'm sure half the people will tell you that you shouldn't have risked busting out. But this fnurt stands by his opinion. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

If you're not willing to risk all your chips when you feel you're ahread, you're never going to win. Conversely, If you risk all your chips too often, it'll bite you. At some point in a tournament (unless you're getting hit in the face by the deck), you'll have to make a big raise and put an opponent on an all-in decision when you know you're behind. Knowing when to do and not to do these things is what the "art" of NL is all about, but to learn the art, you also need to be grounded in the science, which involves understanding the odds in each situation. I agree with fnurt. Post some tough decisions you've had and see what the folks on this board say. It's the best education you can get.

[Magician]

If you are winning 2 out of 80 200+ player tournaments and have many final tables and cashes you are doing as well as someone like Phil Hellmuth or Johnny Chan could expect.

Either you enjoy as big an edge as they do over the fields you are playing against, you are getting lucky, or something in between.

My point is - with results like that, you should be very pleased.

[blomkeen]

Thanks everyone. The hand that prompted this post did not seem like a tough decision, but here it is anyway.

$3 NL HE Multitable on Stars. 1st is over $400. Blinds are 100/200 with 25 ante. I am 13/150ish with app. T10k. Even tho there are 15 or so tables left, there are two stacks larger than mine at the table. Prior to their appearance I was supercrazythiefboy, but I shut down when I saw the stack of T12k pfr (preflopraise) T1600 and then called a tight player who pushed in with about T4000. The bigger stack had 9h5h!!!! Let's call this bigger stack, hmmm, uh "bustblomkeen".

Well, I get KK utg +2 and raise to 800. Bustblomkeen smoothcalls and everyone else folds. Bustblomkeen has played most hands and just shoves in on the flop trying to steal.

Flop (can't remember suits) Q 6 4. I check hoping to induce a bluff where I am put allin. Yeah, yeah, he may have a set or a draw or whatever, but I am *sure* he's got nothing. As predicted he puts me allin. I do not think I am a good reader of hands, but I think I am getting decent at reading player types at these small limit tournies which provides some help in my decision. I was confident of doubling thru.

And, apologizing in advance for the bad beat story, bustblomkeen turns over 8s 6s, gets an 8 on the turn, I go out 150th and he becomes chip leader.

Thanks!

[tpir90036]

as long as he didn't have pocket queens or two pair already you are a 4:1 favorite. at some point in the tournament you need to get a lot of chips to make your run at the final table. if i was a 4:1 favorite to double up i would definitely take it.

[fnurt]

Not only do I think you played it fine, I'm not clear what your other options were. Fold KK preflop because there are big stacks left to act? Check and fold on the flop once you see a bigger stack than yours is involved?

You could have bet out on the flop but that could easily be a mistake against someone like this who doesn't seem to care about his chips. With middle pair he most likely would have called you anyway. With nothing, he might have folded, which would be a shame if checking would have induced an all-in bluff from him.

People like this at the table are a godsend because they let you play tight, wait for a monster, and then get a free double-up from them. Obviously there are no 100% guaranteed double-ups so it won't always happen that way, but you still have no choice but to take advantage of the opportunity.

[eMarkM]

You played it perfectly and set a nice trap. He got real lucky and drew out on you. You'd have been chip leader no doubt had he not caught his 6 outer.

This happens in these cheapie tourneys. People don't take them as seriously and play a quite a bit wilder. I know I've played the role of meglomaniac myself in some of these events trying to hone my aggressiveness for bigger buyins.