Too loose or good play?

[SoBeDude]

Party 3/6

I'm in the BB with 2d 7d

4 callers to the Button, who raises. SB folds. I look at the 4 callers and know every one will call the second bet. I'm getting 11.5 to 1 on my call, so I call. 6 to see the flop.

Flop comes: 4c Ad 3c

Ok, I have a gutshot and a backdoor flush. not a great hand, but the pot is pretty big.

I check, player to my immediate left bets. 2 fold, 3 call.
I close the action and decide to call.

Turn comes: 3d

I've picked up my flush draw, and still have the gutshot. I check, player on my left bets out again. we lose only one so two call to me and I call as well.

River comes: 5s I hit my gutshot.

I check, left player bets. one caller to me, I wimp out for some reason and just call...?

my hand is good.

I get grief for my loose play.

Was my play of the hand too loose? I think the preflop call was ok, and the flop call was fine. I had odds for just the gutshot, ignoring my backdoor flush.

Thanks!

-Scott

[elysium]

hi sobe
fold pre-flop. it's good that you didn't raise after hitting your hand.

[SoBeDude]

Do you really think I should fold with two suited cards getting 11.5 to 1 on my call?

Why?

-Scott

[Homer]

hi ely, boy, wow, you are wrong here. i'm very disappointed. i sentence you to read the section in HPFAP regarding play out of the big blind. after you do that you can start posting again.

-- Homer

[Ed Miller]

Your biggest mistake this hand was not raising the river. You have no good reason to think your hand isn't best.

[fireman664]

I think 2-7...even suited would need about 20-1 for it to be correct. Its just not going to hit a WINNING (maybe second best flush) hand 1 out of 11 times.

[SoBeDude]

I'm ashamed /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Of course you're right. no reason I shouldn't have raised.

-Scott

[Ulysses]

I don't like the call pre-flop. Here's the way I look at it. Would you call on the button w/ 27s if everyone limped? You'll likely be getting 8:1 on your call. If your answer is no (that's my answer) to 8:1 in best position, then I don't think 11:1 in worst position is worth playing. Plus, sometimes someone else will decide to pump up the pot after a raise and a few callers.

Anyway, now that you've played it, you make your hand on the river. Raise. Pot is big enough that lots of worse hands will call you. If you're not going to get the extra bet or two on the end here, I don't think you should play this hand.

[CMangano]

I think the river should prove why this is a fold. If you hit your hand and can't even be confident enough to bet it, then why play it?

If you hit your flush, are you going to go into a raising war? If you hit two pair with a couple of big cards out there, are you going into a raising war? Even if you make a straight, are you going to feel confident enough to get into a raising war? In other words, even if you show the winning hand, you will only win the minimum. No matter what hand you make, it is not the nuts (with some rare exceptions). Plus, you are playing the rest of the hand out of position.

This is one of those bad pf calls that set up bad calls on the rest of the hand that happen to me sometimes. I make a bad call pf and then the flop gives me some draws. So I make a bad call on the flop and the turn helps me, but doesn't complete my hand, so I make another bad call on the turn. Then the river misses me (it happened to hit you here) and I wonder what the heck I was doing.

One last thing, more of something I just need to know. Sometimes I will lose to someone who hit a miracle on the end and they don't raise it. I always think to myself, what is the point of sticking around if you aren't even going to bet your hand when you finally get there. Unfortunately, I want them to keep playing this way so I never ask them, but maybe you can answer the question for me now.

[Joe Tall]

I'm iffy on the the preflop call, however, easy check-raise on the river.

I get grief for my loose play.
As the LP flipped over A6o? Right?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I was at that table, but left a few hands after you arrived. You had to call with that. At that table so many worse hands were going to stay in the pot *and* pay you off at the river. I'm just sorry I didn't have more time to play. I left the table +42 bb after only an hour and a half.

[Mike Gallo]

Scott,

Preflop his button raise could mean he has any hand. I would also call. Especially since I enjoy playing 2 7. I have a friend who might have even reraised in that spot ( private joke) /images/graemlins/grin.gif

You should have raised the river.

Ni han sir

Michael

[OCUJer]

First off your BB position sucks, and with cards like this well, the only thing you have going is they are suited remember you can't even straight them. Personally I fold pf.

Then you run into an opened straight draw only thing is your cards suck again. If you don't catch your card on the river you get beat by lots of overcards. But now you still haven't made any hand so you still loose to any overcard if nobody pairs.

Then another 3 drops. All the sudden your up against a pair you can't make trips with an ace on the board. With a weak flush draw, and an open ended straight with only 3 outs. Then for some reason the poker gods drop in one of your outs.

You made your hand now the only thing you have to fear is;
1) 4-3's, he would have raised you
2) Aces full of 3's, but he doesn't have that. He would have raised at least once.
3) 3's over Aces, he doesn't have that either again with the raise.
So what's left? I figure he paired the ace, and maybe caught the 4. Otherwise he's holding a two as well and at the least you split pot.

But now you made your hand you've gambled to this point he bets and you decided to only call at the river? Raise him back, if he re-raises then call.

His money is already committed,
1) if you win you take it
2) if he folds you take it.
3) if he calls your raise and you win, you get more
4) if you loose you probably deserve to for playing the 72/images/graemlins/diamond.gif in the first place.

Anyway, you gambeled apparently you won, but you should have taken him for more, and then let people give you a hard time for loose play as you spend their money.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
I think 2-7...even suited would need about 20-1 for it to be correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have anything to back that up or is it just a figment of you imagination? You're much too paranoid about flush-over-flush.

This is an easy call pre-flop if you're reasonably confident of it not being 3-bet. Many of you are taking tight play too far and not getting involved enough with marginal hands that have a good overlay.

[CMangano]

So is it correct to play any suited then assuming it is only 1 bet to you and you are sure you're going to get 4+ players seeing the flop? I'm curious, because I usually fold Qx or Jx suited in EP, and would fold 72s for 1 bet on the button almost always. Is this too tight?

[Aces McGee]

CMangano

I agree with your earlier analysis of this hand. I wouldn't play 72s for one bet if it were a ransom demand.

However, the situation you present is, of course, different. If you are on the button with 72s with 5 limpers, you are putting in one bet to win 6 (5 limpers + the BB). In this hand situation, in the BB with a raise and 4 limpers who will call that raise, you are putting in one bet to win 11.5 (the raiser's two, two each for the four callers, your BB, and the SB). So your pot odds are a lot better.

Aces McGee