KJs without perfect flop

[QnA]

First time posting:

I've recently discovered poker and have become addicted to Hold'em. I play fairly tight (and aggressive only when I have something), and I'm cautious about paying to see beyond the flop. I'm often discouraged to discover the many online players in low-limit games who scare me out of a hand w/ junk. Of course when I play junk I lose. I think my game especially from the flop thru the river needs major help. Am I playing this hand right?

2/4 at PartyPoker
Preflop:
K /images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif dealt to me. First two guys call. Next four fold. I raise from LP. Button folds. SB & BB (couple of loose aggressives, they play anything) call, and original two early callers call.

Flop. Pot = $20 - $1(rake) = $19
9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif
I have two overcards w/ Q inside str8. And another heart on turn gives me four-flush.
SB checks, BB bets, 2 call. I folded. Did I do the right thing? /images/graemlins/crazy.gif
- the rest of the hand, if necessary -
SB calls.

Turn. Pot = $28 - $1 = $27
2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif (9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif)
(yeah, I was thinking I should've called at this point)
SB checks, BB bets, 2 call, SB folds

River. Pot = $40 - $2 = $38
9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif)
(wouldn't have helped me anyways, but did I play it right?)
BB bets, 2 call
BB shows (T /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif)
1st caller (A /images/graemlins/club.gif4 /images/graemlins/club.gif)
2nd caller (8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif) he wins $50

[JTG51]

You should have definitely called. You were getting about 13-1 pot odds, which is more than enough to call for just the gutshot. Add in the fact that you could have 6 more outs with your overcards, and folding is a very big mistake.

[Nottom]

With 2 overcards, a gut shot and the 2 nut BD flush, I'm gonna play on that flop. I'd probably raise and take a free card on the turn if nothing helpful comes down. I like the PF raise against weak opponents, but it does no good if you are gonna play that weak post-flop.

[Dynasty]

That's a very bad fold.

There are 13 small bets in the pot which means you are getting 13:1 odds to call a bet. You have more than enough outs to call getting 13:1.

Despite the 2-flush on the board, I'd be confident in all four Queens giving you the winning hand. In addition, making a pair of Kings or Jacks should also give you the best hand on the turn. We'll count that as 4 outs to be conservative. Your backdoor flush draw is worth between 1 and 2 outs. So, let's say you've got a 9 out hand to make it simple.

With 47 unseen cards in the deck, you only need the pot to lay you 4.2:1 pot odds to call. You're getting nearly 3 times that much.

It seems obvious that you need to immediatley work on knowing when to draw when you think the flop gave somebody else a better hand.

[DarkKnight]

Backdoor flush / Two Overcards / Gutshot / 13:1 for the call.

This is worth at least a call if not a raise.

The gutshot alone is almost worth the call.

[elysium]

hi qna
well, a lot depends on your read of the SB. now, how to handle this situation is open for some debate. there are those who say that if your call doesn't close the action, you should fold on the flop. here, your call doesn't close the action, so you would like to have some clue as to whether the SB is going to fold, call or raise. let's assume that you think there is a high degree of certainty that if he doesn't fold, he won't raise. i haven't counted the number of bets in the pot, but this is a 5 or 6 player multi-way with a pre-flop raise. what does that mean? it means you have more than correct odds to peel one card off to hit your nut draw (the K high straight). but look, you may improve to a flush draw and either of your over-cards may take the pot down if you hit a pair. so, you have outs and opportunity galore. assuming the SB won't raise, should you call or raise. well, if these opponents like to check to the raiser, you should raise and graciously accept the free-card on the turn. however, that is not the case here. in fact, the SB is aggressive. the SB may be setting up for a check-raise. and that means that you should fold. only if the SB were passive would calling be correct; and only if your opponents would check to you if you were to raise would raising be correct. so, this hand is heavily dependant upon opponent knowledge. and based upon opponent knowledge, you correctly folded avoiding a possible check-raise. you also were highly unlikely to see the river for free after calling, or raising for that matter. but it is the aggressive SB that dictates the fold here.

now you see why opponents that like to call a lot and who also like to check to the raiser a lot, have higher ev than other more aggressive type opponents. you can play more hands and strategically raise to give your hand the shortest, cheapest route to improvement. these opponents, however, represent the kind of opponents you should only be in there with when you have powerful draws with 9+ outs, and strong made hands. now you like their aggressive tendancies, but you need strong cards that will sustain reraises and check-raises.

[Joe Tall]

Preflop play is good.

Easy flop call. You've got pot odds to make the gutshot str8 and you have to remember that any K or even a J could give you top pair to take it down.