Not looking at 7th card as a strategy in stud games

[Fraubump]

I played my first stud (hi-lo) live the other night (at Muckleshoot Casino near Seattle). While I took quite a bad beat (but not quite bad enough for the jackpot: AAA77 beaten by quad 2's), that's not what this is about. On that hand and on some others I noted that not looking at my river card and making it clear to others that I wasn't (something you can't do online) had some potential as a strategic play. It seemed like the useful times to do this are when you have trips--you lead out blind, announce it and then someone who isn't full with a higher trio than you or a straight or flush might have qualms about raising you. You also might induce more calls this way. Another interesting scenario is when you have one side locked up in hi-lo, you can perhaps induce more calls or maybe even some folds by not looking. You can at the very least make your hand unreadable, since you can't give it away.

I'm sure this whole concept has been well thought out by regular live stud players, but it's new to me and I don't have solid handle on it. Would someone be willing to discuss the various ins and outs of this kind of play?

[7stud]

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It seemed like the useful times to do this are when you have trips--you lead out blind, announce it and then someone who isn't full with a higher trio than you or a straight or flush might have qualms about raising you.

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Since the straights and flushes have about the same chance to make their hands as you do, I'm not sure why you think someone who made their drawing had is looking to raise a possible full house on 7th street. The same goes for someone with higher trips who missed. Generally, people who suspect you of having trips but can't fold, are trying to get to the end of the hand and put in the least amount of money as possible.

If you looked at your card first and then bet, how would that change the actions of the other players? You seem to be saying that in that case, anyone who made a straight, a flush, or higher trips is going to raise you. That doesn't seem like a reasonable theory.

The only thing betting trips into drawing hands without looking at your 7th street card signifies is that you are trying to represent to the table that you already have a full house, which in my opinion is an amateurish attempt to look strong when you aren't. If you had a full house already, wouldn't you want to hide that fact, so that you would get as many callers as possible?

[Dynasty]

Betting the river without looking at your river card is fine if you were going to be regardless of what your river card is. What I never do is check the river without looking at my last card.

[ACPlayer]

In one of Skalansky's books he discusses the situation when it is correct to check in the dark on seventh street. Sorry, cant remember which book.

Usually if someone bets out in the dark he has very little or the stone nuts (more likely in most games).

[CJC]

Hello,

Betting the river without looking at your river card is fine if you were going to be regardless of what your river card is

What are you trying to tell your opponent?

CJ

[Andy B]

I essentially never act without looking at my river card. In fact, I always look at all three of my down cards to see if there is anything I've forgotten about. I might have made a low or a flush and forgotten that it was a possibility. Anyway, I figure that if I sometimes bet or check in the dark, I might give something away on those hands where I fail to do so. I don't want to do that, so I always look. I think that my observant opponents (both of them) are aware of this.

Now in hold'em, I like firing dark shots. I imagine it to be intimidating. Whether or not it is, well, you'll have to ask the folks I play against.

[Dynasty]

I'm not trying to tell my opponent anyting besides "I'm betting".