loose game, AQo in SB, no preflop question, I promise.

[anatta]

8-16. Four players, all basically LAGs, limp and I limp with AQo, BB checks and we are 6 way. I know, I know, I am 80% raise here, so sue me.

Flop KQ8 rainbow. I check to see the action, maybe I check-raise. The BB and a limper check. A middle player (MP) bets, the next player (NP) calls, I fold.

I question my fold. I thought MP might (not always) bet a wide range of hands, and NP would raise with a king. However, later the same MP who bet, checked his QQ when next to last to act in a 5 ways pot with a King on board. I felt like with 5 opponents, the chances of there being a king was good, but maybe I was being too pessimistic.


How would you have played the flop?

[Bob T.]

I think that this is one of those hands where your preflop play determines your play after the flop.

If you raise preflop, then there are a dozen bets in the pot when it gets back to you, and if you think that maybe the bettor had a queen, and maybe the caller is on a straight draw, then maybe you should checkraise, or call. But when you just complete preflop, you are playing for half the pot as in the previous case, and I think that mucking quietly is a better play.

On a side note, I know that you didn't ask, but with AQ suited, I would raise every time in this position, but with AQ offsuit, I would probably limp a fair amount of the time, just so I didn't have to get involved in a thin postflop confrontation out of position.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
I question my fold...I felt like with 5 opponents, the chances of there being a king was good, but maybe I was being too pessimistic.

[/ QUOTE ]

This fold is terrible for a number of reasons. The most obvious of which is that even if you were 100% certain that somebody had a King, you should still call drawing to a 5 out, 8.4:1 draw getting 8:1 pot odds.

[anatta]

So the current pot odds aren't quite there, but you think I will pickup enough bets by check-raising the the better if I hit. On the hand, he bet the turn and the other player folded, but often you get 2-4 BB's when this play works. The other limper is aggressive and he probably raises BTF with AJ AT or a queen on the flop, so JT is a real possiblity, but I would say 2/3 of the time he probably has some other hand.

If I knew he had a king, I can't see playing on with 4 ace outs costing me big time 1 out of three times they hit. Of course, I don't know he has a king, I think its maybe as little as 60% of the time. So folding does seem a mistake.

Since its clear you think folding is a mistake, care to elaborate on how you would play the hand?

[anatta]

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
Since its clear you think folding is a mistake, care to elaborate on how you would play the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Start in the most obvious way. Bet the flop and see how your opponents react.

[anatta]

Betting into five LAGs with this board doesn't seem right, yet I think it is. I could have the best hand. It seems very marginal out of position like this, as these guys tend to raise any pair or draw, and I dont' see how check folding is "terrible", but I see your point.

I think "terrible" in your dictionary means: "Probably not the best choice". "Terrible" is better than "horrible". Similarly, "if you do 'X'," followed by "you shouldn't play ____ limit" is not as bad as if it is followed by "you will never win". /images/graemlins/grin.gif