What the sites plan to do about the S.627

[jek187]

I have taken the liberty of emailing the following sites to see what they have planned to deal w/S.627. The sites are:
Party
Paradise
UB
Stars
ICP
Pacific
Golden Palace
Planet
True
ThePokerClub
WSex
ACR

Here is the email I wrote:
Dear Poker Site,

As a professional online poker player, I am very concerned about the Senate bill S.627 or the "Unlawful Internet Gambling/Funding Prohibition Act." Should this bill pass, does your site, or the industry in general, have any backup plans in place to avoid losing a large portion of American customers? If so, can you divulge what they are? Thank you for your time,

jek's name (jek's screen name)

I've had 3 responses so far, which I'll post in a seperate post.

[arod4276]

Jek, thanks for taking the time to do this. I am very interested to see the replies you got. Please post them for our perusal. Thanks,

arod

[jek187]

Paradise response: 10 minutes:
Hello jek,

We're in the same boat as you in that we don't want to see this bill passing, but it looks to be progressing. Over the next few months I'm sure more will develop in this area, but for the time being we are still pressing ahead as per normal.

Best Regards,

Craig
Paradise Poker Support

Well, how boring, but it was a prompt seemingly knowledgeable response.


Pacific Response: 13 minutes

Dear jek,

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

I have forwarded your message to the relevant department, they will look
into this matter closely.

They will contact you as soon as possible.

If you require further assistance in this or any other matter please
feel free to contact us. We are here for you 24 hours a day, everyday.

Kind Regards,
Lydia
Member Support Representative


I hope the "thank you for bringing this to our attention" line is just a standard response from Pacific. Although it wouldn't surprise me if Pacific support really wasn't aware of this. We shall see what their follow-up response is like.

Jacob from Poker Stars responded in an astounding 2 minutes. Although all he simply had to say was:
Hello jek,

I will forward your question to management.

Regards,

Jacob
PokerStars Support Team
I look forward to the "real" Stars response.

Planet Response (just in while I'm typing this): 42 minutes
[b]Hello jek

Reference Account #XXXXXX

Thank you for your comments and concerns. We have forwarded your e-mail to management. Please expect a reply within 24 hours.

Deborah W
Planet Poker Customer Support

Email
support@planetpoker.com

Phone
US & Canada: 1-866-50-POKER (1-866-507-6537)
International: 1-678-460-0111
9:00 AM to 11:00 PM Eastern Time

[jek187]

Response Time: 3h 42min

Dear Player:

As soon as we have a resolution for this we will be contacting our players with all the details and procedures our site will have about this situation, we appreciate your concern and please keep in touch for more updates about this.

______________________________________
Regards,

Tony

Client Support
ThePokerClub.com


"As soon as they have a resolution" Hmmm. Do they even have one in the works or are they waiting to see what develops just like us? Also, no mention of Skill Poker.

[jek187]

Response Time: 10h 10min

Hello jek,

We are not sure what affect this bill will have. If it is passed at that time we will have to see what we can do.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Regards,

Customer Support


Anyone else getting the feeling that the sites aren't too concerned about this? Kind of makes me feel better.

[Wake up CALL]

"Anyone else getting the feeling that the sites aren't too concerned about this? Kind of makes me feel better. "

Sort of like when we were not very concerned about Osama Bin Laden. Just a thought though I am not comparing the severity of losing the ability to play online poker to the threat of terroism.

[yct]

Good post, Jek. Keep those replies coming. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[GrannyMae]

paradise seems to be the only one that addressed the issue in a way that we are sure that they know the potential impact.

i would call the rest of the responses form spitouts from over taxed or undereducated reps.

the acr response comforts you, yet it scares me. i don't want my sites having the attitude that when someone emails them that the law has passed, they will deal with it then.

that is totally unacceptable. the reality is that it IS something we need to worry about and deal with, and acr's blase response better be due to management changes that have left them clueless, as opposed to the possibility that CRIS might actually BE cluless.

you KNOW i rarely take things serious here. however, i gotta tell you, this thread is the best thing that you have done for ME. you KNOW i love all your posts, but this is such an eyeopening thread so far, and i will probably discuss it more than all your other posts combined. (discuss with local friends.. don't worry zoo, this is my one and only rant/crusade)

i can't speak for others, but IMO your idea to write them all has forced their hand in regards to many things that will expose the *actual* brains, or lack thereof that some of these online have toward reality. they feel so safe and secure off the soil, and miss things that are industry changing. this is one of the BAD things about offshore poker.

how sharp are they in reality? do these support people *really* think this is an issue that should be dealt with AFTER passage?? rofl. this response from acr disturbs me 100 times more than the blow-offs to upper management that the rest have been sending.

i hope the sites that have promised you a response deliver on it. and in keeping with my notion that this is the most valuable thread in ages, i hope that you follow through for us with the sites that are dragging their asses on answering.

know what i got out of the acr response jek?? a phone bill to Berlin. now how could your post have cost me a long distance call like that ?!?

well, my brother-in law is a travelling PA. he is doing it to work off the last of his educational loans. he just turned 50, and has finally grown up. at this point, today, now, that 1k he has with ACR is a LOTTA dough to him.

because of the way these rotations work. this means that he happens to be stuck in germany until christmas.

i felt that i needed to call, because by christmas, it may be too late. i did not call with a pissy attitude like i have in this post. i did not want to worry him too much, but it is something that i decided prior to the call, that it could not wait till christmas.

my brother-in law has a little bit over $1,000 REAL money at ACR. when i saw your post, i called him.

of course i called to say hello as well, but after the family talk was done we got down to business.

i told him in no uncertain terms that if i tell him that the bill is close to being signed into law, he is going to INSTANTLY withdraw every last dime from ACR.

my brother-in law has worked his ass off and been in school for close to 12 years. he has finally on the edge of being solvent, but right now things are a bit tight for him.

there is NOOOOOO fuking way that i will knowingly allow him to leave a dime in a site that has no clue about the necessity of being proactive here.

if i had to script the worst response i would want to hear from a site regarding the bill, ACR would be the model. i can't tell you how screwed up the "ostrich approach" is when it comes to dealing with peoples money.

don't mess with peoples money, and g_d damn it, have a FREAKING plan!!!!

a rush on funds (mass cashouts) for a small POS site like acr could deliver a critical blow to their day to day operations. this is bad for poker, bad for business, and something that "GrannyMae" would never condone. i have spent 5 years being a goodwill clown for this industry (happily, don't get me wrong). being the person that granny is, saying to someone to do a total cashout is NOT AT ALL what i stand for.

but, and it is a BIG BUT, any site that is ill-informed or avoiding the inevitable, or avoiding answering jek's emails on this, are sites that deserve ANY mass exodus they may get because they were not smart enough to have a plan B.

ask caro if planet is on top of this. ask paradise.. they won't give you specifics, but as you see by their response, they are the only one's that are not treating this like a zit that will go away.

top 5 sites people, i'm warning you. money in sites #6 and up is speculative.

dang that was gloomy and doomy, but this thread is starting to piss me off.

keep all the responses coming please jek, and thx much for providing the info to us.

http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/9/confangry.gif

[pokerwhore]

Skillpoker.com a sub of poker.com planned way ahead
for this. Actually with a server already based in the united states and is back by a las vegas casino. Skillpoker.com said once the bill has passed skillpoker.com will be the only legal poker site online, since they said the bill will not affect them since they are an american owned company and their game of poker is based on pure skill unlike the offshore companies which is based on luck. Also skillpoker.com will be regulated by las vegas gaming commision. So its nice to see someone is looking forward to the bill being past in which it will give skillpoker.com the american market. Also I think skillpoker.com is pushing for the bill to pass as you can see one of their main offices is in washington D.C.

[jek187]

To the best of my knowledge Skill Poker is run by ThePokerClub.com people. Why didn't they mention that in their response?

[jek187]

1st off, ty to ARod, yct, and especially Granny for the words of encouragement. Sometimes I'm easily amused, but the responses have certainly made posting this stuff worthwhile and given me the motivation to really be a pain in some site's asses.

The cause of my initial relief was because I was starting to get the idea that the sites had some sort of master plan in place and just didn't want to tip their hands. Upon further consideration (and after reading a nice eye-opening rant /images/graemlins/wink.gif) It does seem that they are more likely clueless.

I will give the sites until Monday afternoon/evening to get back to me. That should give all management time to respond given that I started this on a weekend. Stars response especially intrigues me. Pacific should be good for a laugh. Party will almost certainly need multiple emails. I think ICP will ignore me.

ty again guys for all the support.

[bull7]

[ QUOTE ]
Skillpoker.com a sub of poker.com planned way ahead for this. Actually with a server already based in the united states and is back by a las vegas casino. Skillpoker.com said once the bill has passed skillpoker.com will be the only legal poker site online, since they said the bill will not affect them since they are an american owned company and their game of poker is based on pure skill unlike the offshore companies which is based on luck. Also skillpoker.com will be regulated by las vegas gaming commision. So its nice to see someone is looking forward to the bill being past in which it will give skillpoker.com the american market. Also I think skillpoker.com is pushing for the bill to pass as you can see one of their main offices is in washington D.C.

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to make a small, or better yet, LARGE wager on the outcome of that?

I think skill poker's prose is pure B.S. and won't fly anytime soon. I'll have to see it operating within the U.S. with impunity before I believe it.

I understand everyone's natural concern as it relates to current funds on deposit as well as future income. I, too, have a rather large sum invested with various poker sites and neteller. Yet I am gonna stand pat and sleep like a baby tonight.

My father often told me growing up "there's more than one way to skin a cat". Granny your criticism of poker sites responses may be too harsh. It is difficult for sites to know precisely what adjustments to make until they know specifically know the obstacles they face.

And while it seems poker sites are unconcerned, I can tell you the major offshore sportsbooks are keenly aware of what's transpiring. The big sites, with millions in profit at stake, will have a response when the time comes.

Remember when internet poker started how limited the deposit and cash out options were? But as the business has evolved so has funding methods. The situation on the horizion is merely another hurdle which must be recognized and overcome. This business will continue to change and adapt, must likely in both positive and negative ways. As players we must also adapt where necessary. Necessitty is the "Mother of Invention". Rest assured this tremendous "cash cow" will always find it's way to the barn and develop the means to survive.

[Wake up CALL]

"Rest assured this tremendous "cash cow" will always find it's way to the barn and develop the means to survive. "

Hmmm, I wonder if the guy who invented polyseter leisure suits felt the same way? Or the pencil sharpner? How about vinyl records or betamax? And for Granny don't forget the girdle!

It is a fact of life that some functions cease to exist. Will online poker be the next? I don't claim to know but to be unconcerned is naive.

[bull7]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, I wonder if the guy who invented polyseter leisure suits felt the same way? Or the pencil sharpner? How about vinyl records or betamax? And for Granny don't forget the girdle!

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost any item you can mention either became obsolute because it couldn't or wouldn't adapt to changing times and demand, or were replaced by superior products. CD's replaced albums, pens largely replaced pencils, etc. (Though I still prfer a razor sharp pencil).

Undoubtably there is a tremendous market for online gaming. Sure, those currently making millions could allow it to die, but my point remains they have all the incentive in the world to adapt, improve, advance, and ultimately survive.

You really think just as demand for these products are increasing exponetially those that provide it are just gonna wake up one day and close up shop? Granted some will, reresenting the weaker, less creative and least aggressive in the industry. Nevertheless some will remain to supply the demand for as long as it exists in large enough measure to be profitable.

Ray Kroc didn't invent or launch McDonald's. Instead he has the vision and forsight to franchise it, which represented goals far larger then those of the creator of McDonald's. So Kroc gets the cake and the McDonald's owner the crumbs. Sam Phillips, who just passed away, sold Elvis Preseley's Sun Records contract to RCA for $30,000 because he did not see Presley's true future potential as the "King of Rock & Roll".

Your thinking reflects a view which "can't see the forrest for the trees", and thus I contend, is more naive than mine.

[jek187]

Response Time: 18h 42m

Hi there jek,


Thank you for emailing The Gaming Club.

Our Casino games are played over the Internet, which reaches virtually every country in the world. Some of these jurisdictions have not yet addressed the legality of online Internet gaming, while some have specifically made Internet gaming illegal. In practical terms it is impossible for us to determine what the laws are in your jurisdiction, and whether it is legal for you to place a bet via the Internet.

Participation at The Gaming Club is the sole option, discretion and risk of the Player. In particular, the Player takes sole responsibility for determining the legality of Real money Casino play.

By placing real wagers, the Player warrants that he/she is legally able to do so within his/her jurisdiction. In so doing he/she accepts that the Casino is unable to provide any warranties regarding the legality or otherwise of any Player's participation in Real money play.

We trust that we have been of assistance.


Should you require any further assistance, feel free to contact us. For your convenience, we have a toll free helpdesk available 24 hours per day, 7 days a week.

Kind regards,

Tanya


Customer Service Representative


Wow. Granny, if you didn't like ACR's response, what about this one?

I'm debating how to phrase a reply to get a meaningful response out of them. I'm open to all suggestions.

[Wake up CALL]

bull7, jek187's post above proves my point. The world does not relvolve aroud the USA, online poker will continue and thrive even without our dollars.

Just because you want something very much does not always mean Santa isn't going to leave a lump of coal in your stocking.

[thylacine]

What we have here is a failure to communicate (or comprehend).

Do any of these sites try to understand the actual meaningful content of the messages they receive.

Why do they have these completely irrelevant responses.

[kdog]

[ QUOTE ]
What we have here is a failure to communicate


[/ QUOTE ]
Strother Martin to Paul Newman in "Cool Hand Luke"
[ QUOTE ]
Do any of these sites try to understand the actual meaningful content of the messages they receive.


[/ QUOTE ]
A few.
[ QUOTE ]
Why do they have these completely irrelevant responses

[/ QUOTE ]
Because someone is getting paid x rupees/hr to ANSWER emails and they want to keep their job.

[jek187]

Update from Jacob:

Hello jek,

Just to update you, I have forwarded your message to management and we are
discussing various possible things we may try in reaction to this. Rest
assured, we do realize the seriousness and consequences of this possible
legislation. Once we have studied the exact wording and implications of the
legislation, we will have a better idea of how to react.

Management should be in touch with you in the next couple of days with a
more detailed answer.

Regards,

Jacob
PokerStars Support Team


Such a stark contrast between each of the site's support teams. Of course we haven't seen the real response, but I personally think Stars edges out Para if for no other reason than I've actually seen personality from some Stars personel. Anyways, enough OT rambling.

[GrannyMae]

I was starting to get the idea that the sites had some sort of master plan

J, they do NOT. the responsible sites have their lawyers and everyone shuffling to make sure that they have plans to deal with it when it happens (not if, when)

none of them have THE fix yet, but they are making sure that they will have plenty of ideas, all of them good for different scenarios that may evolve. they will be as ready to react as humanly possible.

poker sites, especially those that are top 5, and poker only (not the casino skins), are well aware of how smart poker players are in general compared to casino players. they know we are a group of people that will NEVER trust a site to react properly after the fact. they know that if we even sniff the possibility that our funds may get locked up in a C.A. bank, we will pull every dime out rather than face the uncertainties.

look at the revenue that all poker sites could lose with even a single day of being "dark". now consider the revenue that EmParty, Paradise and the other biggies would lose if they did not have an alternative for us.

peoples livelihoods and investments are on the line, and being proactive could be the difference in survival or failure.

finally jek, if you need ANY help at all with this 'project', please let me know. if i can't help, i'll find someone that can.

we know they read this board, so the existence of this thread is already common knowledge in the rooms. this thread will force the procrastinators to get off their asses, and it will serve to reward the sites that keep us in the loop.

keep it up
http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/_950/friendship.gif

[GrannyMae]

The Gaming Club's Response

what a joke. this is a form letter sent to people who question the legality of playing poker online. it, in no way, addresses the funding bill. total canned reply.

and bull, you make an excellent point. i'm not panicking YET. i *fully* understand and agree wth your assertion that a battle plan can't yet exist because the enemies and issues are not yet in place.

however, jek's emails are a good start at guaging the attitude and awareness that the sites have, given the current information available.

http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/g/imurevenge.gif

[yct]

imho, stars has the sharpest and the best support staff. they know their stuff and get things done. they should get the credit that they deserved.

[lunchmeat]

I sent an email similar to jek's to propoker.com... This is one response I'm eagerly awaiting.

[jek187]

lol, excellent idea Lunchmeat. Maybe Mike Haven will hit his good friends at Sunrise too?

[jek187]

Dear jek,

Thank you for contacting us.

Your question was brought to my attention, and I am happy to assist as
good as I can.

To my knowledge this bill refers to US payment methods only, which would
be restricted for transactions with gaming related industries, in case
the bill passes of course.

I can assure you that this is not related to the legality of our
business, and I also want to point out, that we are licensed in
Gibraltar (South of Spain).

In any case we are always looking into offering alternative payment
methods for our members around the world, and as you might know, many of
the methods available in the US are actually based in Canada.

Also, if I was a US citizen I would contact my senator directly, and
definitely not vote for this bill to pass.

I hope I was able to address your concerns.

If you require further assistance in this or any other matter please
feel free to contact us. We are here for you 24 hours a day, everyday.

Sincerely,
Benjamin
Manager
Member Support Department


While I thank them for the geography lesson (but where is Spain? /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif), and the helpful hint to contact my senator, there is precious little in this response. They're "always looking into offering alternative payment methods." I think this is another site that can be chalked up to not being too concerned.

[richie]

ROFLMAO However, propoker doesn't need us Americans. They have the Korean investors with their big bankrolls. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[jek187]

Due to a rather hectic day, I'm a bit behind of schedule. UB's response came in at noon today for a response time of 1d 11h 28m

Hi jek,

I can't speak for the industry in general, but we do have a team of lawyers that follow these bills closely. They are not very concerned about this one at the current time. They feel that the limited amount of time congress has remaining this year, and other 'more important' bills to review, that this one will die a quiet death.

However, another is sure to follow, as some people see your occupation/pastime as a great threat to humanity. Now, I've never seen you at the tables, so this may be true. ;o) In any event, it is quite frightening that a handful of politicians can decide what you can and cannot do with your money online. I do hope that you write your congressman with your thoughts on the matter, and encourage others to do so as well.

Take care,
Emma


For the record, my senators have certainly heard from me on this subject. But maybe if people keep reading sites telling them to contact their represenatives more will do so.

[Stu Pidasso]

Your not going to see or hear very many solutions until after the bill is passed. Why announce your loophole and give congress the opportunity to close it while the legislation is being written?

Stu

[arod4276]

Jek I was glad to see Emma from UB take the time to adress your e-mail personally instead of sending some crappy form letter like some of the sites. I have dealt with her before and she has always been very helpful. Hopefully she is right and this bill will die in committee before this session of Congress is over. However, we, as poker players, and the poker sites should not take that for granted. Keep writing your congressmen people. I gaurantee the top 5 poker sites are not burying their head in the sand on this issue and neither should we. Jek keep up the good work, and thanks again. Power to the people.

arod

[Hung]

[ QUOTE ]


While I thank them for the geography lesson (but where is Spain? /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif), and the helpful hint to contact my senator, there is precious little in this response. They're "always looking into offering alternative payment methods." I think this is another site that can be chalked up to not being too concerned.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't say that. I think he has read this thread before he replied to your mail. I'm surprised that UB hasn't answered you yet. Stars and UB have a very good support team. At least they speak/write correct English.
I'm sure they lobby day and night (I don't know if the word lobby excists in English)
These things take a lot of time and work and I'm sure that none of the sites will say what they're gonna do.

[TruePoker CEO]

Dear jek187:

We got your email. As for the poker sites specifically, we have seen little action or reaction. That doesn't mean it is not happening beneath the surface, just that we cannot see it.

As for the gaming industry generally, the response is twofold, lobby against the legislation and prepare alternative means for players to deposit funds, possibly beyond the particular provisions of the legislation.

At a minimum, the effect of "more difficult" deposits on the casual US poker player, and players generally, cannot be ignored. Whether you are a US or non-US player or a site, we will all be much better off if S. 627 is defeated and US poker players are allowed to continue to play poker online.

(Poker players are found all over Capitol Hill, to date there has been no "poker-specific" grassroots lobbying of which we are aware. US players, PLEASE write your Senators to tell them how you feel about playing poker, the All-American game, online against other players from around the world and how S.627 affects that.)

Truepoker Management

[Aragorn]

>>Also skillpoker.com will be regulated by las vegas gaming commision.

There is no such thing as the "las vegas gaming commision"

There is the Nevada Gaming Control Board, but they don't regulate any online games. And no Nevada casino will risk their license by getting involved with online gambling for money.

[HUSKER'66]

Jek, I too want to thank you for your initiative in writing to the various online sites. That having been said, I'm not too sure that I like the sequence of events so far. Ted Geisel and I have pointed out in several earlier posts the seriousness of just what this bill would do to online poker players from the USA. I find myself appalled at the apathy of some of these sites and their responses. Now I do not claim that with the absence of US players the collapse of online poker is inevitable, but it would be a serious blow to the industry. Thank you for staying on top of this issue and I look forward to reading the responses from the remaining sites that have yet to answer.

[thomastem]

It didn't die in committee it is in congress's hands. I did read somewhere that a congressman was quoted as saying that he thought there was no way congress could get to this bill for a vote this session.

[HUSKER'66]

ROTFNLMAO your kidding right? Is this some kind of cruel joke.......pokerwhore, I don't mean to flame you, but your either a shill for this unique site of "pure skill" or as ignorant AS THEY ARE . Where do they get off thinking that since they are an "American" owned company that offers the same game as all those "offshore" sites, that they are exempt from s.627? Why would their games be considered games of "skill" while the offshore sites have games of "luck"????? Maybe, I don't get it but that statement sounds asinine to me. It is my understanding that there have been major casinos in Vegas that have already looked into having online poker sites and passed. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, if this site is allowed to operate with impunity then the offshore sites will have a good case for unfair trade practices.

[jek187]

Response Time: 2d 4h 51m


Hi jek

Thanks for your concern. This is a very important question. I have forwarded it to our management team for their consideration. I hope to get a response fairly soon. I will be in touch with you about it.

Thanks

Kiki

[jek187]

Hello jek

Reference Account #XXXXXX
I apologize for the delay in answering your question. I have been away from the office, and am just now getting caught up.. There is no easy answer to your questions. Planet Poker operates under license and regulation of the Netherlands Antilles, however we recognize that the decisions of the American government are far reaching and will have an effect on our industry. This bill, or versions of it have been tossed around for the last several years. The uncertainty of the direction the US will take, has already had a ripple effect on the industry by making it difficult to deal with conservative banks and financial institutions around the world. The funding methods for online poker (which are lumped together with the whole industry of online gaming), have evolved as a result, and will continue to evolve as developments around the world unfold with respect to online enterprises. While some countries make moves toward prohibition, others are embracing the industry with licensing and regulation. The internet, and this industry, is uncharted territory for governments, and they are struggling to find an approach that is reasonable and acceptable. The United States is no exception... even as S.627 moves forward, another bill, introduced in March this year, hints of regulation instead of prohibition. See: http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/g_three_sections_with_teasers/legislative_home.htm Do a keyword search for online gaming or search bill H.R.1223.

Our Cardroom Manager, Roy Cooke feels that this commission could be the forum where the professional players and casino owners would get a voice. He says " It looks as if someone has figured out exactly how much money is to be made and is looking to control the wealth. That's just fine with me as long as I can play poker in peace. " As Americans, you all have a voice, and have the right to lobby your government representatives when bills are presented that are contrary to your views or are detrimental to your livelihood.

So I guess the short answer is that there is nothing specific to the bill S.627 underway, but there will be continued efforts made by various stakeholders over the next few months and years to keep the industry viable. I know that does not really answer your question, but there can be no clearly defined answers to it. We really have to 'wait and see' what direction the regulators will take, and the industry will find its own path as a result. At Planet Poker, we remain optimistic and we will certainly continue to do everything in our power to ensure that our American friends have a place to play.

Speaking of which, I notice you haven't been in to play at our tables for some time... is there something that we can help you with? We have had significant software upgrades since you were last in a real money game, including the ability to play more than one game at a time... I hope you will give us an opportunity to serve you again in the near future.

Hope to see you back at the tables soon! Have a great day!

Brenda E
Planet Poker Customer Support Manager

Email
support@planetpoker.com

Phone
US & Canada: 1-866-50-POKER (1-866-507-6537)
International: 1-678-460-0111
9:00 AM to 11:00 PM Eastern Time


The heads-up to the search is interesting. The rest of the content was a good read too. I'll let others discuss it further.

As for why I haven't played there, it's simply due to a lack of fish. I'll always hold a soft spot in my heart for Planet as it was where I got my start. They're one of the sites I pull for to do well.

[dux]

I like this one - a thought out response, seemingly holding nothing back. They don't seem terribly pro-active about it all though - rather than sort through the wording off the bill like Stars, they are going to wait to see what happens first.

So jek, who does this leave to respond? One omission that comes to mind is Party.

[Hung]

I'm surprised that UB hasn't answered you yet

I can't believe I missed the reply of UB just above my post... /images/graemlins/frown.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/blush.gif
woops... /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Mike Haven]

"Dear Poker Room Manager

As a professional online poker player, I am very concerned about the Senate bill S.627 or the "Unlawful Internet Gambling/Funding Prohibition Act."

Should this bill pass, does your site, or the industry in general, have any backup plans in place to avoid losing a large portion of American customers?

If so, can you divulge what they are?

Thank you for your time,

Mike"

Dear Mike,

information about all our customers is absolutly confidential. Please don`t worry.

Best regards,

Robert Polson

Sunrise-Poker Support

[Hootie McBoob]

this skillpoker thing could only get off the ground if the state itself (nevada) okayed online gaming.

the catch is the federal wire tap act, which prohibits sending transmissions across state lines for gambling purposes. in short, internet technology of recognizing and restricting access to only instate computers would be required to avoid Congress swooping down and invalidating the grant of online gaming. that technology is apparently not viable as we blog.

as for whether the game is skill or non-skill, is this an attempt to end around the gaming license? or are skill gaming licenses easier to get? could someone fill me in on this? i know that blackjack is defined as a game of chance in nevada (thus it is actually illegal to count cards in the silver state). at any rate, i don't see being able to outwit the 9 million pound gorilla on this one, but it also shouldn't be so quickly dismissed as other posters have said.

[HUSKER'66]

Hootie, It is not illegal in the state of Nevada to "count cards". However, the casinos have the right to refuse "action" to whomever they choose. Just like the signs you see in restaurants etc... "we reserve the right to refuse service.....". This is a myth made up by ???? and it continues to fester, but ask anyone from the gaming commision in Nevada or any other states that have casinos and you will find that the act of card counting is not against the law.

[jek187]

This is a response from Lee Jones that came in this morning via PM.



Hi -
You may be aware that I'm working for PokerStars right now. We are working on a reply to you. I want to make sure that we tell you everything we know, but without saying anything that could be construed as legal advice.

I think you've done everybody a wonderful service by contacting all the sites with your question; I want PokerStars to give you the best response yet. Give us a day or two to come up with the most intelligent answer we can.

Thanks, Lee


While I'm certainly getting very excited to see this response, I can be patient on this. I *know* Stars will give us a response, and the periodic updates that they haven't forgotten us are nice.

[Hung]

This is a response from Lee Jones that came in this morning via PM.

You see that the sites are waiting for each other. Everyone wants to say something, but they wait and see what happens to the other responses. Stars has done well. They sit back and watch and now they're gonne steal the show.
Yesterday I thought about this. What am I going to do if there's no online poker anymore? I could still play, but there're no fish anymore.
It's gonna be so weird.

[jek187]

Dear JEK187:

Thank you so much for contacting PokerStars regarding the Unlawful
Internet Gambling/Funding Prohibition Act (S.627). We are concerned about
this too, and are reviewing the potential implications of the Act should
it pass.

Before I go further, I should note that I'm not an attorney and this is
definitely not legal advice. Our legal counsel is reviewing S.627 as
well, and that, of course, will influence how we respond.

First, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. This kind of legislation
has come up many times before, and has never been agreed to and signed.
Needless to say, we hope that that trend will continue. We encourage you
(and all of your online poker playing friends) to contact your Congressmen
and Senators. Tell them that you don't think it's any business of theirs
how you spend your recreational time (or pursue your living). You're not
laundering funds for terrorists; you're playing poker. You would be
astonished at the power of a well-written and polite letter to an elected
official, and I hope you will write such letters. When you write your
letter, you might remind your representative that PokerStars donated
$25,000 to St. Jude Children's Hospital in Memphis in celebration of
Chris Moneymaker's World Series of Poker win. We are part of the community
and give back to it.

There is also a small, but finite, possibility that with proper lobbying,
we can get poker excluded from this bill. Other states (such as
California) have excluded poker from gambling bills because poker contains
a strong element of skill (as you well know). We would love to see such
an exemption in whatever passes the U.S. Senate.

That said, should S.627 pass, I believe there will still be ways to
legally transfer funds between you and PokerStars. You will just have to
wait and see what they turn out to be.

Be assured that we are taking this matter seriously. As we learn more
about S.627 and its implications, we will pass that information on to our
customers.

Also be assured that we are financially prepared for any contingencies
should S.627 pass. Your player funds are safe. We keep enough funds in a
liquid and a completely segregated account (that is not used for
operating expenses) to cover all players deposits at any time.

Finally, we are also working with other online poker sites to see what
we can do as an industry to keep online poker legal everywhere.

I want to thank you again for contacting us, and hope you'll continue to
do so any time you wish. And, of course, thank you for playing at
PokerStars.

Best regards,
Lee Jones


I think this is an excellent response and worth the wait. I'll leave it to others to comment further.

[jek187]

The following sites have not responded to me:
Party: no surprise
ICP: even less of a surprise
Golden Palace: very surprised, their customer support is normally very good. However, it is run by Victor Chandler, and VC doesn't accept American customers. So, they could be clueless on this subject. We shall see.

I have resent emails to the aforementioned sites, containing this:
I sent your site an email at approximately 4 AM EDT on 8/2/03. I still have not received a response. The original email now follows:


Hopefully we'll get some more responses.

[jek187]

That is hilarious. I'm glad all my info is confidential there. lol, what a bunch of crack smoking morons.

[jek187]

I have replied to The Gaming Club's wonderful email. Here is the reply:

Hello Tanya,

I'm afraid your email was not of assistance. I was not asking if it was legal to play in the US, but what plans your site, or the industry in general, had to avoid losing American business if S.627 passes. Please reread my previous email for more details. Thank you.


We'll see if we get the same form letter back or not.

[yct]

lmao, did they also move their customer support team to india? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[yct]

very professional response. you can see at least they put a lot of thoughts before answering your question.

i guess i'll do their 20% bonus now after reading their excellent response. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[happyjaypee]

HI jek and all,

I've been away for the last few weeks and just went trough the entire tread. Very interesting, good job on this Jek.

The top site have delivered intelligent responce, Stars in particular, and it just show why there at the top right now. No responce from Party is very disapointing though...

The info you collected is of great importance and I suggest you past it on too other forums. This is obviously not common practice but I think you US citizens can get something going if everyone gets to it. (I'm canadian so the bill does'nt affect me but I fell your consern.)

Keep it comming.

Happy /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[rusty JEDI]

For what it is worth in party's last email newsletter they had a small paragraph related to the issue. I no longer have the email but maybe someone who still has it can do a quick copy-paste.

[Hung]

That is hilarious. I'm glad all my info is confidential there. lol, what a bunch of crack smoking morons.

Some sites have no clue that hundreds of people are reading this.
Their reply is ranked #1

[pokerwhore]

get your fact straight golden palace does accept american customers, in fact golden palace closed down pokerineurope.com and made golden palace the main skin so to accept american customers since pokerineurope did not. actually pokerineurope had no idea how to run it then golden palace took it over allowing all americans to play.

[jek187]

You have 5 posts on this forum. 3 have been deleted. Your 4th post was some bit of idiotic drivel about skillpoker.com that you never decided to defend.

Maybe there's some truth in your 5th post, maybe there's not. All I know for sure is VC and GP use the same back end. But I can tell you one thing, I won't believe a word of it coming from some putz who can't type anything coherent to save his life. If you have some info to share, I suggest hiring someone who can write English better than you (such as a trained monkey) to help.

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
But I can tell you one thing, I won't believe a word of it coming from some putz who can't type anything coherent to save his life. If you have some info to share, I suggest hiring someone who can write English better than you (such as a trained monkey) to help.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO!

[asteroid]

hi jek,

I live in Austria (Vienna),my language is german and i,m surely
not so good in english writing.Do you suggest now,that everybody
who is not perfect in english grammar and whose native language
is not english should stop writing here.I like this forum and
many posts here are interesting,but every once in a while some-
body is mocking away at not so grammarconform posts .I guess
this is a poker forum here and should be open to everybody,who
wants to make a (hopefully senseful)post regarding poker.So if
you dont agree with pokerwhores posts, thats perfectly under-
standable and acceptable for me regarding the contents of his
posts.I dont know,where pokerwhore is from,but if he isnt
american at least forgive him (and me) the bad english.
I am not affiliated with any trained monkey for this english
post.
regards
asteroid

[dux]

[ QUOTE ]
get your fact straight golden palace does accept american customers

[/ QUOTE ]

Jek did not say that Golden Palace Poker does not accept American customers. Jek said that Golden Palace is a door to Victor Chandler's poker room, which has many doors, and the rest of them do not allow US players.

[dux]

[ QUOTE ]
.Do you suggest now,that everybody who is not perfect in english grammar and whose native language is not english should stop writing here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm near-positive that is now what jek meant, and not what 2+2 posters as a whole want either. Keep posting, and don't get disheartened if people insult your grammar. Posting will help your English.

[Homer]

thus it is actually illegal to count cards in the silver state

This statement is incorrect (though the casinos would like us all to believe that it is true).

-- Homer

[HUSKER'66]

Is there an echo in here??????? Good to know that Homer ignores my posts /images/graemlins/frown.gif One thing is for sure, for the people that don't believe me, they have to believe Mr. "Carpal Tunnel" /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[jek187]

Hi asteroid,

I will only make fun of your English if 60% of your posts are deleted by the moderators, and the rest are incomprehensible.

Otherwise, by all means keep posting. Funny comment about the trained monkey affiliate.

[fnurt]

[ QUOTE ]
the catch is the federal wire tap act, which prohibits sending transmissions across state lines for gambling purposes.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is also not true. The federal Wiretap Act only prohibits internet SPORTS gambling.

If a Vegas casino offered online blackjack, roulette, etc. on the internet, it would not be violating any federal laws. However, it would probably be violating the STATE laws of all 50 states.

This is probably a technical legal point of no consequence, but I just wanted to set the record straight.

[jek187]

Here is the Gaming Club's latest response:

Hi there jek,

Thank you for e-mailing The Gaming Club.

Kindly be advised that we have not heard of the S.627, would it be possible for you to elaborate on this for us, so that we may investigate this matter for you further and respond to your query.

We thank you for your interest shown.

Should you require any further assistance please feel free to contact us. We are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for your convenience.

Kind regards,

Lisa
Customer Service Consultant


lol, and True CEO thought "I would guess almost every major gaming site is well aware of the proposed legislation." I guess not eh David? (That was a great post David and I'm not knocking it, I just found the timing rather funny.)

My response to the Gaming Club:

Hi Lisa,

For all the technical info you should go to http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/g_three_sections_with_teasers/legislative_home.htm and run a search for S.627. If you want commentary on it, please go to www.twoplustwo.com (http://www.twoplustwo.com) and look on the Internet Gambling forum. I hope this helps, and I look forward to hearing your reply,

Jason Kirsner


Will they actually go through the effort to read the provided links? Will someone from the Gaming Club show up here and show us they care? I can hardly wait to find out.

[Wake up CALL]

Jason Kirsner? Now I see where Jek comes from. Middle name Edward? Plus are you sure Gaming Club qualifies as a major poker site? I am not sure having never played there myself.

[jek187]

Didn't really need everyone on the net knowing my full name although I doubt it'll do much harm. I'll keep my middle name a secret though /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Gaming Club is on the Prima Network, which is #11 on Poker Pulse. I believe they also have an online casino, so maybe it doesn't qualify as major, but at least a signifigant site.

[Mike Haven]

If Jerome deigns to tell us the right name in due course, all those who pick it get to play in a Tournament against the man himself. Prizes to be announced. (No cash alternatives.)

[asteroid]

hi jek,
i hoped and was positive that you meant it this way.just had
to set this right and let a bit steam out about the "grammar issue"
...and i like your posts!
regards
asteroid

[doormat]

I think it is great to find out what the sites plan to do about the bill, assuming they are willing to tell you and play their hand "face up". However, it is somewhat akin to asking a bar what they intend to do on the eve of prohibition. The real problem does not lie with them, it lies with us. We elected the people who are passing these laws. We have the power to stand up and let them know what we think and how we will vote in the next election. Instead of blaming those who do not want to publicly declare their intention to flout the law, we should be working to preserve our freedoms. When the people sit idly by while their freedoms are eroded, they deserve whatever they get. Contact your congressman, get involved. This is OUR government and it exists to serve us, not to rule us.

doormat

[Mike Haven]

If Jerome deigns to tell us ...

Same goes if Jason deigns to tell us. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[jek187]

Response Time: 5d 9h 47m

Dear Jason,

Thank you for contacting our Customer Care team.

We apologize for the delayed response,however please be assured that we also concerned about the same.

We are watching the progress of the bill closely, but unless a specific law is enacted, if ever, it is not possible to know what that law will prohibit or not, and consequently, what changes,if any, we will have to make as a business.

If you have further questions and/or concerns, please contact us via our live chat feature or simply reply to this message.

Sincerely,

Conrad Hale,
Customer Care Representative


Well, at least they responded.

[HUSKER'66]

Hear ye, hear ye! Listen to the good man! Let us not be a "doormat" for our government.(apologies to you and your handle D)This whole crusade against internet poker was probably started by the same type of idiots that try to steal someones car; injure themselves in the process, turn and sue the owners of the car......and win /images/graemlins/mad.gifI have a feeling that the catylyst of our government protecting us from ourselves stems in part from the federal case that came before the court in Louisiana. I don't remember all the details, but in summary: two seperate individuals charged against their MC/Visa cards for thousands of dollars over the course of a few days, went online, played/lost it all, blamed the credit card companies for allowing them to charge against their accounts, claimed the the credit card companies were acting ilegally by allowing funding of "illegal offshore gaming sites" (their words not mine). Now does anyone suppose that this lawsuit would have taken place if these two "individuals" (I'm being nice) had gone online, played and actually won?!?!?!? They got hold of some bleeding heart prosecuter (who wanted to make a name for himself), claiming foul play.....that is one of the reasons that this whole thing has snowballed to where it is now. This is not a case of the majority rule, this is a case of Peter who cried "wolf" and though this issue is very important to us, the majority don't know or don't care. You have senators/congressman that claim online poker is the "crack cocaine" of the internet, and that sites are targeting children with their arcade game type graphics. These people are letting their personal/private agendas affect us. I would be curious to see how many government officials play in a weekly/monthly game around Georgetown and capital hill. There are at least two Supreme Court Justices that play in a regular game. California, changed their laws with the understanding that poker is a game of skill, more than chance, when they allowed the poker rooms to open more that 15 years ago. The only way that we are going to get around this is to fight for regulation, because the government is blind to all but the dollars that they are missing. They want a piece of the pie ladies and gentlemen, and if they can't get it, then none of us (residing in the USA)get to eat.

[Terry]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you suggest now,that everybody
who is not perfect in english grammar and whose native language
is not english should stop writing here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suggest that any posts criticizing the English of a non-native English speaker must be made in the native language of the poster being criticized.

[happyjaypee]

[ QUOTE ]
I suggest that any posts criticizing the English of a non-native English speaker must be made in the native language of the poster being criticized.


[/ QUOTE ]

Je suis tout à fais daccord avec cette idée! Je me suis déjà fais traiter de singe parce qu'un de mes "post" comportait plusieurs fautes de grammaires. J'aimerais bien une lettre d'excuse en Français svp. /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Merci!


Heureux /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[rusty JEDI]

Being Canadian i was forced to take french up to grade 11. Allow me to try to roughly interpret this.

Je suis tout à fais daccord avec cette idée! Je me suis déjà fais traiter de singe parce qu'un de mes "post" comportait plusieurs fautes de grammaires. J'aimerais bien une lettre d'excuse en Français svp.


"I feel i am better than the rest of Canada because i speak french. I also agree with the current messed up system that screws the west and sends all of our federal money towards the french speaking whiners. We often threaten seperation because we use this as leverage to get more than our piece of the pie, even though we know we would be doomed on our own and surely sucked into the US system if they would take us. The only thing we have really ever contributed to Canada is poutine and the Expos. /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif"

Ok, now for real lets see how i do. This is not word for word or even close just trying to pick out the main ideas.

"I am okay with this idea. I think something about himself making lots of grammar errors. I like to use this as an excuse to speak french."

Thank You

Happy /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

So happyjaypee how did i do?

[dux]

I don't believe that they haven't so much as heard of the S.627. Perhaps this is just their misguided poker employee. I would be surprised that The Gaming Club online casino would ignore legislation that may affect cash ins/outs.

[jek187]

This email got lost in the shuffle, but came in after my "reminder" to the sites who had not yet responded.

Response time: 5d 22h

Dear Jason,

There are a series of complex legal issues involved and we are not at liberty to release any plans. Suffice to say that we are extremely interested in servicing our
American clients but will only continue to do so within the confines of the law.

If there is anything else we can do for you, don't hesitate to contact us.

Sincerely,

Golden Palace Poker

[jek187]

InterasinoPoker is now the only site that I contacted who has not responded. Although the Gaming Club must still be doing research on the legislation I brought to their attention as I haven't heard anything else from them.

I resent another copy of my previous email to ICP, just adding the line "This is my 3rd attempt for a response." in there. We shall see if they ever respond.

[jek187]

Response time: 12d 4h 32m

Hi,

Thanks for your email, please accept my apologies for the delay in my response, I have been away from the office unexpectedly, and unable to get to my emails. There have been successive attempts to ban online gaming in the U.S., dating back to 1995, which have failed to date. As we've seen in previous Congressional terms, there can be numerous twists and turns along the U.S. legislative process. As well, probition bills continue to cause considerable controversy, largely due to exemptions/carve outs given to certain interest groups in order to advance the bill. Most recently, the Senate bill (S.627) that was approved by the Senate Banking Committee was only the first step in the Senate process. S.627 currently provides carve outs for horse and dog racing, which has created opposition from other major interest groups (casinos, state lotteries and the Indians), who also want exemptions. Again, past attempts have shown that it is difficult to draft a bill that pleases everyone. There is no guarantee a bill will become law.

Nevertheless, as you indicated this ongoing U.S. uncertainty poses a risk to our business. A primary initiative we've undertaken with our software provider, CryptoLogic, is to continue to offer a wide range of payment options so that players will have choices, as well as working with payment processors in different parts of the world. We also continue to strengthen our customer service team and support tools to enable us to respond proactively and promptly to players experiencing difficulties. These are some of the initiatives we can speak to, which are producing good results in this challenging business environment.

As an industry, we have an ongoing lobbying effort. We are trying to help U.S. lawmakers realize the difficulties in trying to ban online gaming, which will only drive it underground and not stem the growth of this industry. At the same time, we are trying to help them appreciate the merits of regulating online gaming for everyone's benefit (players, governments, operators, suppliers).

I trust this gives you a sense of the situation and initiatives in place.

Regards,

Ryan Hartley
Manager - InterCasinoPoker
ryanh@intercasinopoker.com

You can also try our Support Numbers:
Playershelp and Ecash Direct

1-866-687-7926 North America
+ 800-2467-9261 International
helpdesk@playershelp.com


This was the last site I was waiting on. One side note: If Ryan was unable to check his email, couldn't one of his underlings replied and at least said something like "Our manager is currently unavailable but we will forward your request to him and he will respond upon return." Or something like that? Just a pet peeve...I hate being ignored by sites.

[dux]

Well, you may hate it, but the response is well thought out. It also shows you the casinos are watching the legislation.

[Am Alert]

No professional in their right mind would ever fan the flames of fear like you have done with this topic,

regardless of whether it has merit or not.

[C M Burns]

I have been following this of course, but what is it exactly that the bill will do. As I understand it it will make funding a gaming account illegal in some way. But is this just using internet or wire methods, through a bank or CC. So is it the act of funding the account by you personally, or as I may have read just illegal on a banks part to interact with these entities. So for example would it still be ok to send a money order to a site. And what about something like neteller which in priciple is not just for gaming but for online transactions. How could they not let you fund something like this or paypal, and if it was not a US company how could they bar them from working with a gaming site.
And given the response from skillpoker.com, wouldn't sites interested in the US market just do the same.

[dux]

What jek is doing is e-mailing poker sites on what plans they have should the s.627 become law, and he is sharing their responses with us. I don't understand how this is fear mongering. In my opinion, the responses from card rooms and discussions from 2+2ers on this thread have alleviated fears that US customers will no longer be able to play.

[ QUOTE ]
No professional in their right mind would ever fan the flames of fear like you have done with this topic,

regardless of whether it has merit or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why wouldn't a professional want to share his knowledge and share ideas with others who are in the same situation as himself? The s.627 could be a big deal.

[dux]

I think if you read some of the responses by the managers of the gambling sites, you will see that nobody has defined with certainty the effect of the s.627 becoming law. PokerStars' lawyers are nutting out the fine print, and the rest are waiting to see I believe.

If you do a search for past posts here on the Internet Gambling forum, especially the ones started by Ted Giesel, there was an ongoing discussion on the effect of this bill.

[Am Alert]

[HUSKER'66]

If you have to post, maybe you should reconsider your asinine/alarmist statements.

[jek187]

I have to ask too, but I won't reconsider my pro status. All my money still comes from poker. Whatever you say can't change that. So please, preytell.

[MS Sunshine]

"I won't reconsider my pro status. All my money still comes from poker."

I had business cards made up to stop just this kind of confusion.

MS Sunshine
Professional Internet Poker Player
Will give reasonable quotes on cat mulch

MS Sunshine

[PartyLover]

[ QUOTE ]
"I won't reconsider my pro status. All my money still comes from poker."

I had business cards made up to stop just this kind of confusion.

MS Sunshine
Professional Internet Poker Player
Will give reasonable quotes on cat mulch

MS Sunshine

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL

[Thythe]

Why are you bumping up all of these old as hell threads?

[smudgex68]

s.627 poll for US-based players.
Assuming the bill passes and it is illegal for US-based players to gamble online, will you continue to play poker online knowing that you are breaking the law:

[smudgex68]

s.627 poll for NON US-based players.
Assuming the bill passes and it is illegal for US-based players to gamble online, will you continue to play poker online knowing that there are less fish out there:

[fluff]

Actually, s.627 concentrates on the funding aspect of online gambling. It will make it illegal for any US based business to transfer money to an internet casino or to a money transfer service that deals with internet casino (think Neteller, Igmpay, Firepay, etc).

So even if you wanted to keep playing, funding may be a problem.

[smudgex68]

If anyone else wants help setting up their own Swiss bank account, let me know c/o Swiss Bank Account Company for Americans in Need Inc /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[PartyLover]

[ QUOTE ]
women should not expose breasts in public

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a family friendly forum. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Big Mo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
women should not expose breasts in public

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a family friendly forum. /images/graemlins/mad.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

What's wrong with a little exposure?