Would you believe a 55 BB pot?

[MrDannimal]

.25/.50 table at UB. Loose passive, with spikes of mania. This was one of those spikes. I've been making a killing until now (up something like 25 BB in an hour), in what's been the first great session in a couple of weeks.

I'm in the BB with AQo. UTG folds, three limpers, a poster checks, a fold, another poster checks, SB completes and I check. I had decided before the betting started I was just checking here having just read all the AQ debate and not having fully digested it.

Flop comes Jd 8c Th.

SB bets, I call (with a double inside straight draw, do you raise here, or does position say call?), UTG+1 raises, called to the first poster who folds, called to SB who 3 bets and I cap (at this point I think everyone will call so I'm effectively raising for value, no?) and everyone calls.

7 to the turn (17.5 BB) which is a Ks
(Jd 8c Td Ks) I think: "Yahtzee!"

SB bets, I raise, UTG+1 3-bets (can you say split?), call, call, fold, button caps, and we all call. At this point, I'm certain someone else holds an AQ. someone might be on the diamond flush draw, and someone has KK (or maybe JJ. Not QQ, though). What the rest have, I have no idea.

6 to the river (31.5 BBs) which is Js.
(Ugh.) (Jd 8c Td Ks Js)
So the flush is not there, but unfortunately I'm now probably looking at a boat or quads.

SB bets, I call, UTG+1 calls (it's not him with the boat), fold, button raises, SB 3-bets (open-reraise on the river? Oooookay), I call, UTG+1 folds (see? No boat) as does the guy to follow him button caps and SB and I call.

My thinking - I lose to: JJ, KK, and J(K,T,8) and chop with AQ. I'm pretty sure that of the three who showed down (self included) that one has a pair and the other has AQ like me. Loose as the table is, I can't imagine anyone paying 4 all the way down with KJ, JT, or J8.

Anyway with 30+ BBs in the pot the first call is easy (right? If one has AQ and the other is bluffing ~5% of time I come out ahead, no?). When it's 2 more to me,
there are ~40 BBs in the pot, so it's 20-1 on the call. So now, if the non-AQ is bluffing 10% of the time I break even (winning 10 BBs 10% of the time with the chop and losing 1 BB the other 9), right?

I'm curious to know what the "right" thing to do on the river is, because the pot odds combined with the chance the non-AQ is bluffing confuse me.

At this point in the hand, though, I want to see it and I'll pay (one leak in my game is I'm more willing to pay off when I'm up for the session, which is stupid) to do so.

So the SB has KK and the button had AQ.

Questions:

1) Is it correct to pay 4 bets on the flop with the overpair (KK)? Why?

2) Is it correct to pay 4 bets on the flop with a draw to the nut or 2nd nut straight with no flush threat?

3) How badly did I play the river? Could I have laid it down when it was 2 more to me, or was the pot just TOO big to let it go (meaning, did I have my math close enough above...)

Obviously, the set of kings is getting the right odds (it's 11-1 when it comes back to him on the turn with 9 outs to river his set into a boat) to call, so he didn't play the turn/river wrong.

I don't think that's a bad beat, really. He had KK and while he needed to runner-runner the boat, he was never drawing all that thin against the shared broadway.

But, a hand with 54.5 BBs in the pot, the nut straight shared but rivered down. Yowza.

Comments? Oh, and cry not for me Argentina, It's been 2.5 hours at the table now, and I'm up 50 BB even losing the 54 BB pot.

[rkiray]

You flopped a double belly buster and 2 overcards, so you could have as many as 14 outs. I would have raised the flop, but it worked out better for you. With this many people in you definetly need to cap the flop.

OK your questions :

1) yes. becuase it quite like the best hand.

2) Of course it is. With a big pot you should definetly go to the river. You are less than a 2:1 dog so as long as you have at least 2 opponenets you are making money on every bet. In this case you are making a lot of money.

3)This one is tougher. I would call because the pot is so big, but I think I overdo that. Given that people at this table sometimes go nuts there is even more reason to call. But, you read your opponents exactly correct. So it comes down to how strongly you trust your read. If you were very confident in it, you might lay it down. (I admit that would be very gutsy though).

[MrDannimal]

Thanks. I hadn't thought about the overcards.

As for the reads, at least at the .25/.50, I tend to "overread", in that I tend to put people on hands based on how they played and putting myself in THEIR shoes Meaning, I'll look and say "well, I'd have to have Kings or AQo (which I also had) to be doing that", and some of the time some clown has K2o and is drawing dead but capping rounds. That's why I called. I figured there was a 10% chance that despite the action my read was wrong.

[Nottom]

Always sucks to have the nuts get rivered, but I still can't get past the fact that there were 2 people with AQ and one with KK and no one raised preflop.

[MrDannimal]

*laugh* Like I said, I hadn't fully digested all the AQo discussion from earlier, and had decided early to just check.

I don't know why the button AQo didn't raise (I sure would have there) or the SB cowboys didn't either (also, I sure would have).