going on hiatus...

[bernie]

"In short, I think his ramblings saying "it depends" in a very specific question are harmful to those who are seeking answers."---clarkmeister in a thread

this line has pissed me off. big time. along with the moron who thinks i dont understand or comprehend the game.

evidently, it is not ok to voice an opinion opposing or alternate without being told, 'because we say so! this is the only way!' this, even after i accept the other's argument but feel like expressing a differing view or play of the hand that is available. evidently, this turns into the 'my way or the only way. if you dont agree, you're a f*ckin idiot' funny, i dont believe ive ever came across like that in a response to someone else presenting an idea. even if it were wrong.

i'm really sorry some cant handle the fact there are multiple ways to play a hand. i have NEVER posted a thought or concept with the intent of being 'harmful'.

i also dont think it's 'harmful' to express a differing play or opinion. EVIDENTLY some feel this way. have i been corrected in a post? yes. havent we all? but the BS im seeing lately is just that...BS.

the hand in question there were different ways to play the hand. it wasnt a total 'depends' situation. there were a couple ways to play the hand while reaching the same end result. but GOD FORBID anyone straying from the black and white, dare, questioning a different mode of play.

im sorry some of those just cant accept that poker is non-definitive and it does depend or there are different ways to reach the same destination. but not on here, evidently. there is only one way. and by-god you better ONLY do it that way or your a 'harmful' piece of sh*t that doesnt 'understand' the game.

well, kiss my f*cking ass.

i understand it quite goddam well, thank you. but sorry im not perfect in every thought or concept i present as some are.

because i agree with one way of playing (sometimes even stating additional reasons for such play. yet at the same time im told ive ignored what was written!?! funny, how can i ignore it when ive agreed with it?) while presenting an optional play, i have my head up my ass and no clue about the game. way to keep the minds open people. way to broaden the thought process.

to those it pertains to, you are all the best and no one should EVER question you. you are infallable. you should be bowed to and spoken to/about only in hushed tones.

i apologize if my 'ramblings' dont click with the ones who may not get the gist of what i may be presenting. and because that post style doesnt agree with theirs, that's totally wrong also. i know sometimes it gets a little wordy, sometimes i have a time getting it down on paper. but if it clicks with one and helps their game, then it was worth it.

but, apparently, im not helping anyone's game with my responses. my responses are now deemed 'harmful'.

well if that's the case, i will be signing off for awhile and you select elite can all engrave only a select set of views in concrete. no one questions those with the chisel, i guess.

after all, i guess it doesnt depend. unless it only depends on who's name is on the post.

to the very few, minute players who i may have actually helped their games or at least think about their games a little deeper....keep flopping aces and faces.

but it seems im doing nothing but leading anyone down a wrong path.

to those who say good riddance? good riddance to you to.

signing off until whenever...

bernie

ps. i want to thank Mason and David for providing this forum as it really helped accelerate my game exponentially. It is the top forum of it's kind.

thank you again.

[Saborion]

Hmm... Interesting I must say.

I`m a poker newbie, but what I`ve gathered from books and forums, poker is NOT a static game, hence why it`s considered so complicated. And unless I`m mistaken, that`s also why some books are better than others. These are the books that tells you what you should consider when making your decisions, not how to play every hand.

Because of this I personally think the best thing someone can do is play, read, ask questions on forums such as this. When reading what other people say, make up your own mind. In most cases one play might be better than the other, but in other situations it might be the other way around. One style of play will NOT work for everyone.

So bernie, neglect whatever got you upset and stick around. I`m quite sure I`d like your input on stuff every now and then.

[rkiray]

Gee Bernie,

I for one will miss you. I always liked reading your post. And I agree there are a couple of egos getting a bit out of line in the forums lately.

[Homer]

bernie, best of luck to you. I hope I didn't do anything to push you towards leaving and that you'll be back sometime soon.

-- Homer

[lil']

I read the thread in question and I can't say I blame you for being pissed.
I appreciate your viewpoint that there are sometimes alternate ways to play a hand.

Sometimes, posts like these just make it embarrassing to return later on...hope that's not the case with you.

[Jim Easton]

I'm sorry to hear this Bernie. I certainly don't consider your postings harmful.

For one record, you didn't say "it depends", which is what Clark called harmful. You said you saw it as a close play.

The funny thing is you agreed with Clark in prefering a raise.

[Mike Gallo]

Bernie,

I will for one will miss your posts.

Why not hire MajorKong as a ghost writer for you?

All joking aside, don't take any of this personal. You don't know Clark and he doesnt know you. Many people at this site do respect your opinion and read your posts.

I did not see the post in question however I hope you reconsider.

Michael

[JohnShaft]

Don't take too long a break Bernie.

I always appreciate your posts, and you would be a real loss to this forum.

[Mike]

Well D@nm, what to do now. I enjoy your insight and you different opinions. I think we need posters with viewpoints. Hope you're back soon!

Mike

[felson]

Hey Bernie, I'm sorry to see you taking a break. I always appreciated your posts, and I learned a lot from you. Hope you come back soon.

[Jeffage]

Bernie,

I just wanted to say that I personally have enjoyed interacting with you and have valued your advice on this forum. Please reconsider your decision. Clark and Dyno play well and contribute a great deal, but sometimes their "rude/brush-off the opinions of others" style of responding makes me wonder why they even post hands if they are always right. This forum is about debate, and I think considering other opinions is paramount to advancing your game to a new level. IMHO. Best of luck whatever you do.

Jeff

[anatta]

Bernie,

I have lurked and posted here since Nov. 2001. I have always thought that you are a strong player and respected your opinions. You made some good points in the JJ thread, but what do I know? I raise it when I am ahead and limp when I am stuck /images/graemlins/blush.gif !

Take a break if you want, but remember, guys like me will be here getting better and you should be here too.

[kiddo]

I read the thread and understand you are pissed off.

Clarkmeister starts a post [re: BERNIE]: "Do you need a dictionary or reading comprehension classes?"

I respect your post Bernie. The discussion about how good/bad the advices in HEFAP loose-section is, is very important (at least for me). EV+ preflop (raise/not-raise) versus EV+ postflop (odds/no-odds to outdraw you) is a very tricky question. Hope you come back and talk more about it soon.

[rigoletto]

OK, you've vented (and i sympathize). Now get back on the horse - we need you!

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Come back soon, Bernie. I always look forward to reading your posts.

[brian0729]

I'm only going to say what almost everyone else has already said. Your advice has helped my game and helped me think about my game, for that I say thanx.Your influence is in almost all of my hands. Everytime I am going to limp with a hand. I ask myself a question. "If I limp with this hand can I stand a raise behind it" Feel the love and from everybody and get back here.

[Porcupine]

I haven't read the post(s) in question, but do hope that you'll make your break, if you really need to take one, a short one.

Although I have been mostly a lurker, I do remember and appreciate the thoughful responses you have given to my "problem hands".

[Wingnut]

amen brother...speed on back

(this post presented in all lower case in his honor)

[Ulysses]

do it that way or your a 'harmful' piece of sh*t
you're

it only depends on who's name is on the post
whose

It is the top forum of it's kind.
its - Interestingly, you could have opted to use "it's" to start that sentence.

All the love in this thread is heartwarming.

PS - (to Bernie) I've heard it's important to get the sand released. Otherwise you might become a walking time bomb.

[Vehn]

Hah.. dunno if you saw this but I quoted another sand line (the Nancy Drew one) from that episode as like the 2nd response to his post last night and it was stalinized by this morning. But bernie can apparently say "kiss my f*cking ass" without reprisal. Whatever.

[Robk]

>But bernie can apparently say "kiss my f*cking ass" >without reprisal

The trick is you forgot to replace the a in v*gina with an asterisk.

[Homer]

I don't really ever want to be a high-limit guy if it means becoming hardened like this.

-- Homer

[J.R.]

[ QUOTE ]
evidently, it is not ok to voice an opinion

[/ QUOTE ]

It is paramount that you DO express an opinion. Please continue to do so. Without autonomy of expression, we have tyranny of thought. Its my belief that the greatest value of these forums is NOT understanding WHAT to do, but understanding Why one should do that.

[ QUOTE ]
i also dont think it's 'harmful' to express a differing play or opinion

[/ QUOTE ]

No, its actually of the utmost importance.

[ QUOTE ]
i want to thank Mason and David for providing this forum as it really helped accelerate my game exponentially.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets hope the acceleration of your game continues, for your and our benefit.

[Ulysses]

Oh, come on, Homer. You seriously don't think Bernie's post was a little much?

[Ulysses]

Whoa. Your post is gone. I saw this thread yesterday, but didn't have time to respond. I couldn't wait to get back and write my time bomb line. Of course, it's much less funny now that your post is gone.

For those of you confused, Vehn posted a response earlier that said something like:

You guys looks here, in this Nancy Drew mystery, Nancy goes to the beach and gets sand trapped in her shoe. This could explain how Ernie got it in his v@g1n@.

For those of you still confused, well, too bad.

[oddjob]

actually a while back you berated me for checking down heads up with a friend, when we're playing for fun. you essentially stated that i was cheating and we were colluding.

[ QUOTE ]

evidently, it is not ok to voice an opinion opposing or alternate without being told, 'because we say so! this is the only way!' this, even after i accept the other's argument but feel like expressing a differing view or play of the hand that is available. evidently, this turns into the 'my way or the only way. if you dont agree, you're a f*ckin idiot' funny, i dont believe ive ever came across like that in a response to someone else presenting an idea. even if it were wrong.


[/ QUOTE ]

this is actually the way you came across to me. i didn't think any less of you, i just felt we had strongly different opinions on it. now i kinda think you're a hypocrite.

[rkiray]

I don't know. I think there may be a bug in the server. Twice I've noticed post of mine disappear, but a few hours later they reappeared. Never saw this before the server upgrade. One of them had a slightly controversial comment about organized religion, and I thought I might have been censured because of that. The other was quite ordinary. But they both reappear. (Either that or I'm going senile at an early age).

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, come on, Homer. You seriously don't think Bernie's post was a little much?

[/ QUOTE ]

His reaction is immature. It's like players who throw cards at dealers. He's just being a big baby.

bernie has never been very good at taking criticism on these forums. This isn't the first time he's put up curse filled posts aimed at specific posters just because he's been told he's wrong. He's done it to me more than once.

There have been good stretches of time when people were putting up some extremely hate-filled posts about me, including posting where I lived and what I was wearing a specific day. Pesumably, they did it just to annoy me. I never found it necessary to start swearing at people and acting like a little brat.

As far as this line goes...

[ QUOTE ]
"In short, I think his ramblings saying "it depends" in a very specific question are harmful to those who are seeking answers."---clarkmeister in a thread

[/ QUOTE ]

...I think Clarkmeister is right. bernie can go on for several paragraphs and not say anything beyond "it depends". He can't seem to get past "you can play a hand many ways" in his analysis and posts as if anybody who disagrees doesn't understand that.

[pufferfish]

I have learned more from you than any other poster on this site.

A couple of days before this post I had also decided to stop posting for a while. For anyone else reading this, I know, I know who cares! I don’t, it’s not fun to post here right now.

I agree with much of what you said. For the rest, I probably don’t have enough history on this site to understand.

Take care dude,
pf

[Stu Pidasso]

Hi Bernie,

Personally, I think Clark, Dynasty, and others are wrong about always raising preflop with the premium hands(as in many of the examples posted in this forum). Needless to say those folks have a very stong position on which to stand. Nobody can deny that there isn't positive EV In making these raises. In fact the +EV of these raises is easily quantifiable. Whats not known, and whats not easily quantifiable is the value of manipulating the size of the pot before the flop for the purpose of causing your weaker opponents into making bigger mistakes on later streets. Also not really know is the value of keeping the pot small for the purpsoe of driving out your some of your better opponents when the flop is favorable to you(but leaves you vulerable). To date I have not read anything or seen any reliable data that would indicate the value of such pot manipulation. In short, those of us who think Clark et al are wrong haven't really come up with a strong argument to show them that. It may very well be that the strong argument does not exist.

The reason I posted this in this thread, is that I think going on hiatus because some folks here pissed you off is weak. If your going to take some time off, do it for a good reason. Do some research, run some sims, put together some data. Come back with some ammunition.

Stu

[AceHigh]

Excellent post, Stu.

Whether you take bernie's side or Clarky's, whether you win or lose an arguement, leaving can't be the answer.

We all gain by these discussions, or we wouldn't keep coming back.

[RockLobster]

Oh my, I just got back from vacation and missed out on all the excitement!

b, I enjoy reading your posts. I also enjoy reading many other people's posts here (including the people that you butt heads with). I hope that a short break is all you need, but if this forum isn't working out for you then I'm sure we'll all understand.

Take care, and thanks for the help...

[Mike Haven]

i got quite excited when i read the title of this thread

i always thought a hiatus was the thing that girls broke while riding horses as they lost their virginity

could someone link the subject thread to this one so that we newbies can read where the trouble started, please?

thanks

[slavic]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=301785&page=&view=&sb =5&o=

Have fun reading this one Mike.

I talked to Bernie Sunday and he seems to be doing fine and is quite definetly on lurking duty. I opted to go for a wild crazy table, while he choose somthing more rational that he could run over, so we didn't chat long.

Oh and BTW for the record I'm raising JJ here. Now AQo, AJo probably not but in the BB JJ is begging me to play for two bets, wants to play for two bets, who am I to deny JJ?

[RollaJ]

OK, it seems I am a bit late on this but here goes. I was just sitting here, having read every post I wanted to already and started thinking.... when I started playing about a year and a half ago there was this guy Bernie who helped me a lot in begining to learn the game. Bernie was great and took his time to write some really great responses as well as PMs.... So I just went over to the low limit section because I hadnt seen his name in so long, I didnt find him till I searched and found this thread.

What a shame!

He was a huge asset to this forum, probably one of the biggest/best contributers. He did a lot to help many players, and that he should be driven from a forum for reminding people that EVERY hand is different is just plain wrong.

Bernie, Thank You For Everything!

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
He was a huge asset to this forum, probably one of the biggest/best contributers. He did a lot to help many players, and that he should be driven from a forum for reminding people that EVERY hand is different is just plain wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

I did see him when I was checking who was online a few weeks ago and he did make 1 or 2 posts after this but I think he has left.

He lied about his 'hiatus'.

It is a shame,
Joe Tall

[GuyOnTilt]

Who is this bernie character and why did he steal the title of my earlier thread?! /images/graemlins/smile.gif I miss him too. Great poster, now no longer.

GoT

PS. He still checks his PM's and lurks, so no "I hated bernie, good ridance" posts.

[Max Weinberg]

Bernie was great. Bernie is still great. In fact, he did send me some great PMs regarding the "dark side" of pot size manipulation when I posted some theories not to long ago over in the General Theory forum. This whole discussion, when it first came up, became a sick debacle. It was a shame.

His loss is just a reminder to everyone here to keep an open mind regarding poker. Not everything is as cut-and-dried as we like to believe.

Take it easy, Bernie. Hope to see you again here sometime.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
He was a huge asset to this forum, probably one of the biggest/best contributers. He did a lot to help many players, and that he should be driven from a forum for reminding people that EVERY hand is different is just plain wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm.... I thought bernie was oversensitive to criticism and often was the source of some of the worst advice seen on these forums.

[lil']

I still have nightmares about this thread...

[Michael Davis]

Bernie was a very good poster and his contribution to the forum is missed.

However, Ulysses is right. As evidenced by this thread, he is oversensitive to criticism. His loss is not a reminder to the rest of us of anything. We didn't "lose" him, he gave himself up. Nobody forced him out, it was voluntary. Nobody is to blame here, and it's not like we should be doing things any differently merely because one person decided they didn't want to post here any more.

-Mike

[Bob T.]

Almost makes me want to revive the 'JJ in the SB' thread to go with it. /images/graemlins/grin.gif Naaaah.

[Aaron Lovi]

[ QUOTE ]
Nobody is to blame here, and it's not like we should be doing things any differently merely because one person decided they didn't want to post here any more.


[/ QUOTE ]

Awful. I stopped posting here for almost 2 years because of a) people who think this way, and; b) the horrible poker advice I was seeing. And it's your loss.