I've got one for ya Rock

[Homer]

Party 3/6. I'm dealt 88 in the BB. Four limpers, SB completes and I check.

Flop - 833

I bet and get two callers.

Turn - J

I check, next player checks, LP bets, I checkraise, dude folds, LP calls.

River - 7

I bet, LP raises, I reraise, LP caps.

I show my flopped nuts, LP shows 33 for the flopped...oh wait I didn't flop the nuts he did!

-- Homer

[RockLobster]

Oh my. Thanks for sharing, this hand qualifies as a bad beat, all right!

As most of you may know, no one here (or anywhere for that matter) wants to hear about bad beats... but I do. So check out my site (in my signature) and unload them on me, you'll feel much better.

Thanks Homer, and ouch.

[lil']

lol

I'd say this is more of a "really bad luck" situation than a "really bad beat" situation.

[rkiray]

That's a tough one. FWIW I think I would have played it exactly the same way.

[JTG51]

Check raising a guy with quads is always a good move.

I might have posted it before, but I once check raised a guy that turned quads with a straight draw. Luckily I didn't get there on the river.

For what it's worth, I think you played the hand perfectly.

[Uston]

Am I being too results-oriented in asking why you didn't check-fold the flop?

[JTG51]

Am I being too results-oriented in asking why you didn't check-fold the flop?

LOL, maybe just a bit.

[LondonBroil]

If you had come out betting on the turn, you could have easily folded to his raise saving you muchos $$$.

Whenever I'm raised on the turn I automatically think quads.

[baseball38]

Ouch!

baseball38 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[elysium]

hi holm
the LP left some bets on the table, but i'm more interested in why you would bet out like that from the BB. just terrible holm.

you have to realize that this flop may very well have hit the BB solidly. now betting into three opponents isn't so bad. it can be good here. but betting into how many, five holm? that is screaming that you 73o has finally come in. you should check-call unless a raising war breaks out, then you can go ballistic.

on the turn, you should have bet out and hoped to get raised by the 3 or two pair.

you played the river perfectly, but how could you not have? these situations always result in perfect play by both opponents.

holm, i want you to begin to consider what effect position has on your opponents read of your holding. you are playing much better lately, but there are some leaks that begin when you don't consider position and read.

[rigoletto]

Whenever I'm raised on the turn I automatically think quads.

Me too, sometimes I'm in doubts when the board is not paired!

[Mike Gallo]

you have to realize that this flop may very well have hit the BB solidly.
Homer flopped a full house. What could he fear other than exactly quads.

you are playing much better lately, but there are some leaks that begin when you don't consider position and read. Hence my point about taking the needle out of your arm.

Elysium..you should lose posting priveldges for a month.

Michael

[Barry]

Hey, at least he writes in paragraphs now...

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
you have to realize that this flop may very well have hit the BB solidly.
Homer flopped a full house. What could he fear other than exactly quads.

[/ QUOTE ]

What should he fear? He should fear everyone folding for one flop bet when he holds the nut full house. I think Elysium makes some very valid points in his post.

Homer is BB. There are two 3's on the flop. A million people are in the hand. Homer flopped the nut full house. When he bets out from BB in an unraised pot into 400 limpers, people will consider that he might actually have a 3 (because he is BB). It's disastrous if everyone just folds to his bet here, which they may well do. It's not a drawy board, and chances are against someone having a 3 or 8. And once he gets a couple of callers, I think betting out the turn and hoping someone slowplayed a 3 (or hit a Jack) is a very good move.

Now, in many aggressive lineups, betting out actually works fine here (and in many LL games, many will call the flop w/ two overcards), but this is definitely a situation where some degree of slowplaying is a very valid option. Remember, (as mike l likes to say), the size of the bets increase on the later rounds.

Sure, once in a blue moon you'll run into quads like Homer did. But your main focus here should still be how to get the maximum number of bets into the pot.

[Mike Gallo]

. I think Elysium makes some very valid points in his post.

I need to read better, because I did not see them.

I think what offended me most was the condescending manner in which he replied to Homer. Perhaps Elysium did make some valid points, however in the obscure manner in which he writes, his posts often confuses me.

I had to vent here.

[Homer]

What should he fear? He should fear everyone folding for one flop bet when he holds the nut full house.

Frankly, I was expecting 3 or 4 out of 5 players to call. Rarely does anyone fold for a single flop bet in these games.

Homer is BB. There are two 3's on the flop. A million people are in the hand. Homer flopped the nut full house. When he bets out from BB in an unraised pot into 400 limpers, people will consider that he might actually have a 3 (because he is BB).

They won't consider it, really. They don't think. There was not a player in this game that I thought took any time to read hands (other than his/her own).

And once he gets a couple of callers, I think betting out the turn and hoping someone slowplayed a 3 (or hit a Jack) is a very good move.

This may be a valid point, I dunno.

Now, in many aggressive lineups, betting out actually works fine here (and in many LL games, many will call the flop w/ two overcards), but this is definitely a situation where some degree of slowplaying is a very valid option.

Agreed, slowplaying is an option, but in this game I'd just as soon collect 3-4 small bets on the flop and take it from there. The fact that I only got two flop callers was very surprising to me.

-- Homer

[Nottom]

No one ever believe the BB actually hits a hand when he bets out. If he did, he obviously would have checkraised.

Duh.

I like the bet out and check the turn play. It looks like he tried to bluff or bet a bad 8, missed and gave up

[Louie Landale]

There are no flops that could "hit the BB solidly" since his hand is random. It could be that "the bb is the only one that could have hit that flop", but that's another story.

In typical low-limit games, no. Far too many players will call "one time" on the flop when they have anything, including over-cards. Against these folks, be SURE to get one bet in when its a low-flop. Check-raising the turn makes a bunch of sense since its THIS round you can truly expect players with nothing to fold. Checking the flop makes sense with a flop like A33 and you have A3, since its tough for anybody, even the most tenacious, to call. Even so, don't expect to make much money since the turn card is unlikely to help anybody.

Bet the flop, check-raise the turn is a perfectly good way to max out this hand, even when you have what's known as "fools nuts".

- Louie

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
Frankly, I was expecting 3 or 4 out of 5 players to call. Rarely does anyone fold for a single flop bet in these games.


[/ QUOTE ]

At Party Poker this is a reasonable expectation. Also, its good these people see you bet out on the flop when you have the goods, that way they will believe you when to take a shot at them with nothing in the future.

Stu

[Mike Gallo]

Evidence once again why I consider Louie Landale one of the best posters on this site.

I agree that Homer played the hand optimally. Hence my reason for flaming poor Ely.

Michael