Getting punked on the turn.

[Huh]

Party 2/4

2 limpers to me and I open raise with

A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

one cold-caller behind me, one blind comes along, all else call.

Flop is A J 3 rainbow. Checked to me, I bet, CC calls, and one other player calls.

Turn is a 7. Putting up a two-flush with the Ace...Non-diamonds. Checked to me, I bet, CC raises, everyone else folds, I call.

River is a blank of the blankest sorts.

CC bets, I call.

This spot always gives me trouble. Whenever I get popped on the turn, I start to think set or maybe picked up a draw. Given the Ace was paired with the suited card, I didn't think this was as likely. I didn't think two pair was likely either, given this players actions up to this point. There are about 8 bets in the pot now, and it's going to cost me 2 more to take a shot at the 9 that will be in the pot. The check-raiser had been at the table for about two orbits, and hadn't shown down yet. I think he played in two or three pots.

Can I routinely lay this one down,or will it be good often enough?

-Huh

[rkiray]

I would call, but I see no point in raising here.

[CrackerZack]

Often I find the person just picked up a draw to go with his pair or vice versa. I will always call and sometimes 3-bet depending on what i know of the player.

My real question here is, how do you open raise after 2 limpers? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Munga30]

"Can I routinely lay this one down,or will it be good often enough?"

I think it's very hard to know whether it will be good often enough when you don't know this player. True, 33, 77, AJo, A3s and A7s all might play this way, but paying him off on this hand will go a long way toward filling your notes, e.g.,:

"Cold calls late w/(all, mid) pairs"
"Cold calls late w/ Axs"
"Chases PFR with pocket pairs on flop"
"Chases w/TP crap kicker"
"Likes to wait for turn on unc boards"
"Likes to sbr w/MP & follow thru w/o resistance" -- KJo

And on and on and on. IMO, you have to see the river and, without pairing the board, you pay for a showdown now to avoid doing it in the future, if warranted.

[Mike Gallo]

2 limpers to me and I open raise with You didnt open raise..you raised after two limpers

Checked to me, I bet, CC raises, everyone else folds, I call. Why not reraise to see where you stand? You could have the best hand.Perhaps he has AQ or A 10.

Would CC raise to win the pot right there? Has he seen you lay down hands to a turn raise? Do you think the 7 helped him? Perhaps he has AJ. Perhaps he will check raise with a flush draw. How does he percieve you as a player? How does he think you percieve him as a player?


Can I routinely lay this one down,or will it be good often enough? Depends on the opponent. If someone knows you play weak tight they will attack you on the turn enough times that you will lose money by making the wrong laydown. If a rock who only raised with the goods raises you, then you can lay it down if you dont have a redraw to the nuts with the correct odds. You might need some help reading hands.

Michael

[Huh]

Oops about the open-raise comment. I usually write these things pretty quickly.

I don't get three-betting the turn at all? This seemed to be a reasonable player. If he is on a draw, cool, I get the extra bet and he will fold on the river. If he is not, than I could have gotten to the showdown for the same price. Also, if I am ahead I have a chance at collecting a river-bet, which I might not get if I three-bet. Am I missing something?

-Huh

[J.R.]

Nope, the turn check-raise is usually the goods so treat it as such in the absence of any personal knowledge of your opponent's "move"itis. There is no free-showdown aspect to the check-raise, so it is more believeable. You have position, so make sure a river bet gets into the pot.

[34TheTruth34]

This is where I have the most trouble with Party Poker opponents. You raise with a big ace and for once in your life, you hit the flop. But then you get raised on the turn. The rule of thumb is anytime you are raised on the turn (after having raised preflop), your opponent is telling you that he can beat your top pair or overpair.

Personally, I'm starting to think that if I folded 100% of the time in this situation I probably wouldn't be giving up that much in the long run. But, of course, I haven't got around to doing that yet, so I still pay off. They almost always have the two pair or set they're representing.

[Huh]

I was disappointed with myself on this hand. I think I could have layed it down, especially with the limited info I had on the opponent. Anyhow, He had JJ, for the flopped middle set.

-Huh

[CrackerZack]

God bless him and his middle set. if you routinely lay this down, you're giving away money. and other will take shots at you.