Flush draw goes horribly wrong: News at 7

[slavic]

Paradise 2/4 great table Loose normally 5 to the flop and 3 guys who were just gamblers. 1 person had his full $500 "newbie" bonus money at the table. It was a little on the aggressive side but hey, you can't always get what you want.

I'm in the CO with Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Utg folds, EP1 limps, EP2 poster checks, folds to MP1 poster who checks, LP1 limps, folds to me and with 3 players to go I figure it's time for a loose limp, Button folds missing his first button in 5 orbits, SB(big money Boy) raises, BB calls, everyone calls with the exception of MP1 who folds.

6 to the flop(13 SB): 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Yea baby talk about perfect pre flop raiser is first to act and I'm last. We are going to see the turn for 2bets, maybe more.

SB checks (errr), checks all the way to me, well I can't give that much EV away I bet, SB now raises, all fold to me, hmm that's not to plan, I call.

Turn(8.5BB):6 /images/graemlins/club.gif (9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/spade.gif)

SB bets, I call

River(9.5BB):4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

hmm prepare the old fold button.

SB bets, and then I stop to think what does he have that he just doesn't bet out on the flop with? Why check raise after popping it Preflop? He's got a weak hand, I'm not sure of it but I'm not 92% convinced I'm beat.

I call.

[Ed Miller]

Sounds reasonable to me.

[Uston]

I predict somewhere between 6 and 8 posts in this thread detailing how horrible your preflop call was.

It's a bit loose and I'll usually only make it on the button but whatever.

I think you played the rest of the hand very well, especially the river.

[CrackerZack]

I'm not in love with the limp, but I like the call on the end. I think 8% of my mind says he has AK or AQ. About 85% thinks decent pair and 7% is hibernating.

[HUSKER'66]

Let the predictions begin!! I think that your preflop call was to quote Uston "horrible". /images/graemlins/frown.gif Q6s IMHO can easlily turn into a dominated hand. Your title to the post "flush draw goes horribly wrong" says a lot, but my question to you is "what kind of flop were you looking for?" Your Q high flush is beat by anyone holding a Axs or Kxs, and your 6 is no help as a kicker if a Q does hit you on the board. The best that you can hope for on the flop is trips or two pair, hoping that it will turn into a fullhouse That being said, IMHO you made the right plays on the following streets.

[slavic]

I was looking for exactly the flop I got. A 3rd nut flush draw from late position, on a table that played hands a little too aggressive and way too far. I thought I was going to get 8 players to the flop and well like the title says all that went wrong.

[slavic]

Come on, you know you want to take a shot at the pre-flop.

[HUSKER'66]

Guess it's just me then....I don't limp in with the third nut flush draw against a table that [ QUOTE ]
plays hands too aggressive and too far

[/ QUOTE ] with three players still to act after me.(guess that makes me a perfect example of tight/passive /images/graemlins/confused.gif)

[slavic]

Nope that makes me a person trying to change my table image.

Note I called it out as a loose limp, if I win the hand and show down those who are taking note will see somthing they don't expect. There were a couple at the table who I'm sure took note too.

[AceHigh]

preflop limp is fine.

I'm pretty sure you are beat. He wouldn't play AK this way would he? But since you don't know this player that well, I would probably make the crying call.

[rkiray]

I generally think that someone who raises preflop from a blind and then check raises the flop is showing streagth, not a weak hand. Unless he is so new that he is totally random. What makes you think he is weak?

[JTG51]

Your Q high flush is beat by anyone holding a Axs or Kxs...

There are certainly reasons to not play Q6s preflop, but being worried about someone having a bigger flush draw shouldn't be one of them.

[slavic]

Because of the flush draw board. If I'm best right now I'm betting, giving away free cards should be a crime. By checking he is giving away a free card to someone like me.

Also a checkraise from th SB or BB when the raise comes late doesn't always signal strength to me. It says I think I'm best right now and I'm going to protect this hand as much as possible. This seems even more so when the bet is from the button who is likely position betting.

[slavic]

He had AQo for ace high.

[bernie]

he usually isnt c/r'ing here with a drawing hand. he's forcing everyone else to call 2 bets on the flop. he's protecting a hand. he's saying if you want to draw to 'beat' me, it's going to cost you. it doesnt take much to draw to beat AK. id be suprised if he didnt turn over a high pair or AK. i would guess that if he had AK or AQ he may have the A of spades. but then again, he is overagressive. but a single bet on the flop isnt getting anyone with a draw out. and with this many seeing the flop, he's betting a +EV spot for some of the draws. the c/r is a strong move, usually with a made hand. unless the bet was from his left. then he may be betting a draw. though many will only c/r with strong hands and rarely bet draws at all, much less c/r.

nothing wrong with calling a last bet. even if you lose, you get some information. you at least have something to showdown.

but, now knowing this about the player, how about a 3 bet on the flop? this could cause him to slow down and give you a discounted card (since you paid 1/2 the price on the flop with the 3rd bet) on the turn. may or may not be a great idea, but something to think about...

b

[Ed Miller]

Not really... I'd probably make that limp often as well.