baseball question

On Saturday's game between the Mets and the Yankees


the catcher Castillo allowed Cedeno from the Mets


to steal home.


Is the catcher the only one responsible for this play?

Is this play embarrasing for the Yankees?

Was this play called by the Mets manager Valentine?

I love baseball, please educate me.

Add any imformation that will help my understanding of the game, ty all.

Usually, it's sloppiness by the pitcher that allows a steal of home, although it is the responsibility of the catcher to keep his pitcher in the game. Perhaps the fact that the Yankees had an inexperienced pitcher on the mound and their substitute catcher in the game.


Don't know whether Valentine called the play, but he certainly would have had to have given Cedeno the OK to try it if Cedeno felt he could make it.


By the way, does anyone else find Valentine to be borderline psychopathic? He really seems like a nut-job to me.


I think it probably is somewhat embarrassing when this happens. Most steals of home in today's game are delayed double-steals with men on 1st and 3rd: the guy on 1st takes off for second and as soon as the catcher throws through, the guy on 3rd takes off for home.


In the old days, straight steals of home were more common: Jackie Robinson, Rod Carew, Ty Cobb, and even Lou Gehrig did it fairly often. I've been to probably 400 games in my life and I've only seen a straight steal of home once, and that was in the early 1960s (by Phil Linz, a utility infielder with the Yankees).

On Saturday's game between the Mets and the Yankees


the catcher Castillo allowed Cedeno from the Mets

to steal home.


Is the catcher the only one responsible for this play?


The catcher is probably the least responsible. Cedeno stole home on the pitcher. The catcher is not allowed to cross home plate until the ball reaches him, so the runner's jump off of the pitcher is the key to the play.


Is this play embarrasing for the Yankees?


Not really. they fell victim to a good runner who timed their pitcher perfectly, but there isn't anything they could have done.


Was this play called by the Mets manager Valentine?


Not likely. Cedeno probably had a green light, but these types of plays are made at the player's discretion.

Is the catcher the only one responsible for this play?


No. It is the pitcher's and the manager's fault. Lilly should have been pitching from the stretch with Cedeno on 3rd given his speed, etc..., but he was pitching from the windup, giving Cedeno ample time to steal home. Torre took responsibility in an interview, saying had he been paying attention like he should, he could have told the pitcher to pitch from the stretch.


"Is this play embarrasing for the Yankees? "


Somewhat. It happened because their heads weren't in the game. However, much worse things happen all of the time.


"Was this play called by the Mets manager Valentine? "


Yes, apparently he yelled "GO! GO!" from the dugout and Cedeno heard him and went.

Not that I'm an expert but I was listening to the geniuses (ahem) on am sports talk radio last night as I was driving home from a day of fishing (sucked). I guess Torre took the blame by letting left hander Pettite pitch from a full wind-up. next time Pettite will be pitching from the stretch with a man on third.

watching the play it appeared to me that castillo was completely and solely at fault. he had cedeno dead to rights and reached out to tag him rather than waiting for the slide. i wonder if this is how the yanks teach catchers to play since posada often does this as well.


on teh previous pitch valentine appaerently yelled "go, roger!"


Pat

i think babe ruth did in about 20 times. sure tells you a lot about the speed of the pitchers and the sophistication of pitching from the stretch (or lack thereof).


Pat

I think guys like Ruth and Gehrig did it because the game was still played, despite their influence, as if it was the dead ball era. I think they sacrificed a ton also, compared to how infrequently it's done today.

Hi Andy,


I saw a stright steal of home of Billy Hatcher at Fenway Park. It was the most exciting event I've ever witnessed in a regular season game.


I think it was much more common in the old days due to many more pitchers pitching from the windup. Almost all releivers and most starters pitch from the stretch when a runner gets to 3rd nowadays.

Valentine is, in fact, crazy. I think you'd have to be to manage in that town.


I haven't seen the play in question, but I was curious, so I did a little research and found a list of people who have stolen home ten or more times in their careers:


Ty Cobb 54

Max Carey 33

George Burns 28

Honus Wagner 27

Sherry Magee 23

Frank Schulte 23

John Evers 21

George Sisler 20

Frankie Frisch 19

Jackie Robinson 19

Jim Sheckard 18

Tris Speaker 18

Joe Tinker 18

Rod Carew 17

Eddie Collins 17

Larry Doyle 17

Tommy Leach 16

Ben Chapman 15

Fred Clarke 15

Lou Gehrig 15

Bob Byrne 14

Fred Maisel 14

Fred Merkle 14

Vic Saier 14

Heinie Zimmerman 13

Donie Bush 12

Sam Rice 12

Shano Collins 11

Harry Hooper 11

George Moriarty 11

Bob Roth 11

Buck Herzog 10

Jim Johnston 10

Rabbit Maranville 10

Paul Molitor 10

Babe Ruth 10

Bill Werber 10

Ross Youngs 10


Cobb leads the list by a pretty safe margin, but that works out to a little more than two steals of home per season over a very long career. Jackie is just under two per year. Steals of home have always been a relative rarity, just not nearly as rare as they are now. One will note that of the players on this list, Molitor is a recent player, and Rod Carew is relatively recent. Those are the only two guys that I'm old enough to remember. Jackie played a pretty long time ago, and I think the rest of this crowd is pre-WWII. Rickey Henderson, the all-time steals leader, has stolen home five times in his career according to a source I found on the internet. There has to be some kind of explanation. Pitching from the stretch would seem to be the most likely culprit. I don't know if that's the full explanation, though.


While doing this search, I came across a quote from Nolan Ryan where he said that nothing is more embarrassing than being beaten by a guy who steals home on you.