$22 SnG - short stacked w/ pocket 4s???

[kevstreet]

PartyPoker, Big Blind is t150 (7 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com (http://www.pregopoker.com/hhconv/convert)

UTG (t1550)
UTG+1 (t500)
MP1 (t1435)
CO (t1440)
Hero (t705)
SB (t765)
BB (t1605)

Preflop: Hero is in Button with 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif
UTG calls t150, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">CO folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero?

My guess is folding is the correct play...

You are short, but now that short... i wait for abetter spot when i am first in a pot, but that is just me.. Push is not the worst move here I would say about 65% fold 35% push

[45suited]

*original reply deleted for stupidity*

I'd fold and wait for a better spot.

[mpfree]

hmm, ok I have to learn something from this.

I would have thought this is a push considering hero has ~5BB. Is it a fold because UTG will often call and turn over something like 77s?

[splashpot]

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hmm, ok I have to learn something from this.

I would have thought this is a push considering hero has ~5BB. Is it a fold because UTG will often call and turn over something like 77s?

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Pushing isn't that bad here. Folding is more like "playing it safe". But UTG will fold a large % of the time. If I had any read that UTG might fold, I would push.

[pergesu]

Yeah it's a bummer, but I think you fold here.

88 would probably look big enough to me that I'd push. Not sure if that's a leak though. I guess since you're a bigger favorite over hands like A8s/A7s, and the board shows two overpairs (turning your hand into high card 4..suhweet) to eights a lot less often.

[curtains]

I would move allin for sure. You probbaly have the best hand and you have folding equity. Meanwhile you have just under 5x the BB, what more do you expect?

your guess is correct.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

I would move allin for sure. You probbaly have the best hand and you have folding equity. Meanwhile you have just under 5x the BB, what more do you expect?

[/ QUOTE ]

Switch 44 to 22. Do you feel the same way?

The UTG limp is always interesting in these situations but hard to read without context. One of my most common notes to make on players is "Can limp and fold in the late game" so that I know when I can play back at these things. If he's planning on limping and calling, whatever his range is, I don't think 44 is that exciting a holding to be getting involved with.

[caretaker1]

Check SNGPT

[splashpot]

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Check SNGPT

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SNGPT can't do this with the limper.

[curtains]

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I would move allin for sure. You probbaly have the best hand and you have folding equity. Meanwhile you have just under 5x the BB, what more do you expect?

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Switch 44 to 22. Do you feel the same way?

The UTG limp is always interesting in these situations but hard to read without context. One of my most common notes to make on players is "Can limp and fold in the late game" so that I know when I can play back at these things. If he's planning on limping and calling, whatever his range is, I don't think 44 is that exciting a holding to be getting involved with.

[/ QUOTE ]


If hes planning on limping and calling but very rarely has an overpair, this is an automatic push. Fortunately he will fold sometimes as well.

UTG sees you pushing from button and sees you are short, he may call with any pair like 66-TT or any 2 over cards thinking he may have a small advantage...

I would wait until i can enter the pot first even if it is just something like 89s if you are entering first I like it better.

that being said, i do not think it is wrong to push and i would not fault that play, just think there is a better spot coming

[The once and future king]

BB = 150
Stack = 705
= PUSH.

Not enough better opportunity waiting time left to fold.

[curtains]

You guys are killin me here. How can you sit around and wait for some great oppurtunity with just over 4x the BB left. Yes it isnt a dream scenario, but you aren't likely to have one at this point. Anything but moving allin is simply terrible IMO. If the blinds are 50-100 then feel free to fold all you want.

[45suited]

Dammit, my first instinct was to push but then I retracted my post. Partial credit? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[The once and future king]

I clearly state push in my post and then perhaps not so clearly say that there isnt enough time left to wait for a better opportunity.

So there.

[curtains]

I wasnt referring to you! Just responded to the last post.

[caretaker1]

Missed that: fold

[The once and future king]

Ok.

I actualy find it quite encouraging that so many say fold even though fold = quite horrid.

I think maybe some have missed that the BB is 150.

[kevstreet]

For the most part the table was playing tight and passive but no specific reads on villain. Hoped he was capable of laying down unless of course he held a monster....

I know results don't matter but sometimes I like to find out what happens to others so here goes:


kevstreet is all-In [705]
buddy172 folds.
brandtwolf15 folds.
sonnycha calls [555].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6s, 7s, Ts ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9c ]
** Dealing River ** [ 3s ]
sonnycha shows [ As, Ad ] a flush, ace high.
kevstreet shows [ 4h, 4s ] a flush, ten high.
sonnycha wins 1635 chips from the main pot with a flush, ace high with ace kicker.

[Bill Poker]

[ QUOTE ]

You guys are killin me here. How can you sit around and wait for some great oppurtunity with just over 4x the BB left. Yes it isnt a dream scenario, but you aren't likely to have one at this point. Anything but moving allin is simply terrible IMO. If the blinds are 50-100 then feel free to fold all you want.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think HERO had very little FE here, at least at 20+2. Even we only have 4.8BB, do you think it is a good idea to willingly take at best a coin flip here? especially HERO is button, and can wait for a few more hands, either for a better hand or open push opportunity. I do realize that sometimes I wait for too long. its my leak.

[curtains]

If we knew for sure that it was a coinflip with the UTG player, this is a very good situation for us. Very good....passing it up would be suicidal.

[The once and future king]

Push and prey for a coin flip.

[Bill Poker]

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If we knew for sure that it was a coinflip with the UTG player, this is a very good situation for us. Very good....passing it up would be suicidal.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you saying that even if you know that UTG has AK, you still push? thats kind beyond my level of play......

[curtains]

definitely! First off there is dead money in the blinds (225 chips!!), second of all you will win the hadn almost 55% of the time. You arent going to see a better oppurtunity than this with only 4.7x the BB. Coinflips are usually bad when you have a comfortable chip stack, when you are desperate and its not the bubble they are usually pretty good, as its unlikely you will have a better oppurtunity. Its especially good to be on the "right" side of the coinflip.

[Bill Poker]

[ QUOTE ]
definitely! First off there is dead money in the blinds (225 chips!!), second of all you will win the hadn almost 55% of the time. You arent going to see a better oppurtunity than this with only 4.7x the BB. Coinflips are usually bad when you have a comfortable chip stack, when you are desperate and its not the bubble they are usually pretty good, as its unlikely you will have a better oppurtunity. Its especially good to be on the "right" side of the coinflip.

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thank you for your reply. I guess I learned something. it is definitely my leak.

[EasilyFound]

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Coinflips are usually bad when you have a comfortable chip stack,

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what do you consider a comfortable chip stack? earlier you said people could "feel free to fold all you want" w/BB at 100, which would be 7xBB. Does that mean that 7xBB is comfortable or something higher, like 10xbb?

[pergesu]

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If we knew for sure that it was a coinflip with the UTG player, this is a very good situation for us. Very good....passing it up would be suicidal.

[/ QUOTE ]
We don't know for sure that it's a coinflip though. He could easily hold an overpair, and there's like no chance he has 33/22. So we're either a coinflip or badly behind..I guess I just don't see it as an instant push. If we had some FE to counteract the times we run into an overpair, sure, but do we have any FE here?

[curtains]

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[ QUOTE ]
If we knew for sure that it was a coinflip with the UTG player, this is a very good situation for us. Very good....passing it up would be suicidal.

[/ QUOTE ]
We don't know for sure that it's a coinflip though. He could easily hold an overpair, and there's like no chance he has 33/22. So we're either a coinflip or badly behind..I guess I just don't see it as an instant push. If we had some FE to counteract the times we run into an overpair, sure, but do we have any FE here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Its either a coinflip, we are behind (although a coinflip is much much more likely if we get called by UTG) OR OUR OPPONENT MIGHT FOLD. We definitely have folding equity, it costs the guy another 500+ chips to call. If you want to tell me you've never seen a partypoker player fold in this situation, you are flat out lying to me.