Muck KK preflop?

[guppy]

Dealt KK on first hand of a 10+1 NL tourney at Party.

Raise to $40 first in, folded around to small blind who goes all-in.

Only a total idiot would pull this move with less than AA, so it would take someone equally boneheaded to call them down with only $40 already invested, right?

That's me. AA v KK. No miracle. Next tourney please!

In my meager defense, I've also gotten all-in preflop in the first few hands of a few of these tourneys recently against hands like JJ, AK or worse.

[cferejohn]

I'll do that every time in a sit-n-go. If he has AA and you bust out, you can go sign up for another sit-n-go. If he has anything else you likely double up and are off to a great start.

[haakee]

There are a lot of people who will go all-in with a variety of hands in the Party $10+1 tournaments on the first hand. I recently saw somebody limp-reraise all-in with 44 on the first hand. You have a clear call unless you know the player.

[gunboat]

I would call every time in that postion. I have seen all-in early with almost anything. Medium pocket pairs, AJo... anything. Besides, most players with AA will try to milk it a bit. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[mongeron]

My funniest incident at $10+1 Party NL tournament was this.

It was the first or second level.

I am in late position, one or two seats right to button. I get KK. I raise the pot after a few callers. The player on my left makes a mini-reraise, the player on my right calls, and I reraise all-in, both call.

The player on my left had 45s, the player on my right had 35o. Nothing special happens and I take the pot and bust the two players.

So, the raisers can often have anything.

- mongeron

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

To me, a huge overbet like this says one thing - "please fold." Even if this person is so tight he'd only do this with AA, KK, or AK, you're ahead 57% of the time. Ad AQs and QQ and the number goes to 75%, add AQo and it's 83%...well, you get the picture.

This is an easy call.

[fireman664]

I disagree that it is an easy call. It goes back to "lose your chips and your out". You should avoid CLOSE calls that will put you out of the tourney....especially the first hand. Even if you do have a slight edge (like if they had QQ), I still think it is the wrong call.

[DJA]

You are drunk right...

How could it be a close call if your opponent has QQ. That is the best edge you are going to get in the tourney. Now, if your opponent only makes the move with AA, KK, or QQ you are an even money shot overall... Now it may be worth folding.

But so many people will do this with far less then AA...
I would say AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT AK, AQ... If this is the case, you HAVE to make the call. Also, many opponents don't even have to have the above hands to make this move.

Just My Thoughts,

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Even if you do have a slight edge (like if they had QQ),

Please feel free to play in any tournament I'm in. KK wins 81% of the time against QQ.

[Copernicus]

Last night, after being spiked on the river with AA on the first hand, I was already down to under half a stack when I'm dealt 55 in the BB on the 3rd or 4th hand. MP goes all in, Button calls, I call. The button, with AK, asks me how I could call with 55. (MP had AQ).

If I can all my money in with KK I'll do it every time.

Oh...I caught another 5 on the turn and won.

[DJA]

I wouldn't make this call, but good hit. At least your opponents were counterfitting each other's hands.

[Maroon]

Well, it's not a given that your opponent has AA, even if he's the most obvious-playing fish in the world. Such players will usually go all-in with AK also.

Once we assume you have KK, there are six ways that this person can have AA, and eight that he can have AK. So of the fourteen holdings that the most obvious-playing fish in the world would have, you're beating 57% of them. (I am not saying your chances of winning are 57%, I'm just saying, preflop, you're ahead of 57% of his possible holdings).

As Sklansky says, you want to avoid close calls early in the tournament, so perhaps you might not call here, if you could be sure he would go all-in with only AA or AK.

But let's say the guy is a slightly better player, and thus he would go all-in with QQ. There are sixteen ways he could hold that. Now, you're ahead of 24 of his 30 possible holdings, or 80%. (Again, I am not saying you will win 80% of the time, just that you're ahead of 80% of the hands he would go all-in with). So you'd be crazy not to call.

I might go all-in with AQ suited, but I would definitely not do so with AQ off. So, we won't get into that, but you can do the math yourself.

By the way, it's better to go all-in before the flop with KK than to call, because if an Ace flops it's easy to be outplayed. You just have to hope you don't get trapped by Aces, because when AA and KK bump heads in no-limit, usually someone is losing his whole stack.

[SoCalPat]

You have to call.

To wit as to what people will do in these tourneys, I was in a $5+1 at Paradise and was dealt KK UTG. I raised to 80, MP went all-in, as did two other players.

Well, I thought, they can't all have AA. As long as an ace doesn't hit, I'm good ... and there might not be one because they're all holding AK or AQ, and are essentially drawing dead.

Much to my chagrin, an A hit the flop. But my unimproved KK was good and I quadrupled up.