Is Being Gay Hereditary/Genetic?

[TomBrooks]

Is being Gay a genetic trait?

All gay persons parents, grandparents and their entire ancestral lineage engaged in heterosexual sex. How could being gay be a genetic trait?

[diebitter]

Superficially this is a stupid question. However, if gayness is inherited, it could be by being a recessive gene or set of genes. Recessive genes means they only come to the fore when they meet the same recessive genes in pairing. A bit like blue eyes, or blood groups etc.

However, if they were strictly genetic and were, in all other respects, neutral (eg having a gay gene didn't confer better hunting skills, or better abilities to survice), there'd be powerful evolutionary forces at work to cut out the gayness (simply put, you don't breed, you don't get in the next generation).

It's possible gayness could survive if carrying the recessive gave the carrier better skills at carrying on into the next generation. Say having the recessive made you superfit, then those carrying the recessive would breed more successfully in the long run than the others.

This is speculative and off the top of my head, but there are bound to be some good works on this somewhere.

Also, this should be in SMP not OOT.

[soko]

100% social conditioning.

[mrkilla]

[ QUOTE ]
100% social conditioning.

[/ QUOTE ]

but if it helps you sleep at night to think that you were born that way , more power to you.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
Is being Gay a genetic trait?

All gay persons parents, grandparents and thier entire ancestral lineage engaged in heterosexual sex. How could being gay be a genetic trait?

[/ QUOTE ]


Being "genetic" is not the same as being hereditary. The latter means that you specifically received something from or through one or both of your parents. The former simply implies that it is something that you were born with--and "genetic" is probably not even the right term, because it implies that whatever we are speaking about is due to your specific genetic coding.

My understanding is that sexual preference is set at a very early age, possibly even by the time of birth. However, a lot happens from the moment of fertilization through the time a child is three or four years old.

I think the best way to summarize this is to say that for most gay people their sexual preference isn't really a choice.

[peterchi]

[ QUOTE ]
100% social conditioning.

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you're being sarcastic, I'm going to have to go ahead and say that this is a really ignorant statement.

[diebitter]

Given homosexuality is exhibited in many species - in the sense that activities that primarily are for sexual activity such as 'presenting' and 'mounting' occur between male/male and female/female - then 100% is very likely to be incorrect.

[peterchi]

Could also be incomplete penetrance. i.e. not everyone who have a genetic susceptibility for cancer gets cancer.

And along those lines, homosexuality is most likely due to some gene x environment interaction, not unlike just about everything else about us.

[imitation]

Only if you are [censored] your dad in the ass.

[evil_twin]

[ QUOTE ]
100% social conditioning.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes because those gay dogs and other animals are so socially conditioned to be gay.

[imitation]

Ooops I didn't read this thread I see the discussion is somewhat serious, please disregard my post in a thread which I presumed would have already degenerated to the point of no return. (It was a joke)

[B Dids]

This thread should be elsewhere.

I think the best answer is that "we don't know, and we don't want to less somebody get some dumb ideas about 'fixing' it".

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]

All gay persons parents, grandparents and their entire ancestral lineage engaged in heterosexual sex. How could being gay be a genetic trait?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure plenty of homosexuals have engaged in heterosexual sex.

[SmileyEH]

I think some biologists have found genes which show a propensity for homosexuality. It is most certainly not entirely based on environmental factors, nor is it entirely genetic.

-SmileyEH

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

All gay persons parents, grandparents and their entire ancestral lineage engaged in heterosexual sex. How could being gay be a genetic trait?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure plenty of homosexuals have engaged in heterosexual sex.

[/ QUOTE ]

Andy: Hold on, his daughter? But he's definitely gay.

Maggie: He can't be gay if he's got a daughter.

Andy: Oscar Wilde was married with two kids.

Maggie: Well he can't have been gay.

Andy: What Oscar Wilde?

Maggie: Yeah.

Andy: Got to stop hanging around with you.

-SmileyEH

[toss]

Are there any animals known to be gay? Like prefer gay sex over hetero sex? I know some animals such as Rams and Wolves mount each other, but that can be explained with social status and stuff. Alpha male exerting his dominance and all that jazz.

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]
Are there any animals known to be gay? Like prefer gay sex over hetero sex? I know some animals such as Rams and Wolves mount each other, but that can be explained with social status and stuff. Alpha male exerting his dominance and all that jazz.

[/ QUOTE ]

Chimpanzees (especially bonobos) have gay sex all the time (and I do mean all the time).

-SmileyEH

[diebitter]

[ QUOTE ]
Are there any animals known to be gay? Like prefer gay sex over hetero sex? I know some animals such as Rams and Wolves mount each other, but that can be explained with social status and stuff. Alpha male exerting his dominance and all that jazz.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, there's Sparky:

http://www.sightssounds.net/images/sparky.jpg

[peterchi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are there any animals known to be gay? Like prefer gay sex over hetero sex? I know some animals such as Rams and Wolves mount each other, but that can be explained with social status and stuff. Alpha male exerting his dominance and all that jazz.

[/ QUOTE ]

Chimpanzees (especially bonobos) have gay sex all the time (and I do mean all the time).

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]
I think they're all bi though; as far as I know, no one's observed a strictly homosexual bonobo. They're just too horny to limit themselves to just one gender.

[peterchi]

[ QUOTE ]
Ooops I didn't read this thread I see the discussion is somewhat serious, please disregard my post in a thread which I presumed would have already degenerated to the point of no return. (It was a joke)

[/ QUOTE ]
no worries, i laughed

[cjmewett]

[ QUOTE ]
100% social conditioning.

[/ QUOTE ]I always get a good laugh out of this. So what you're really saying is that if you had been raised differently, you could easily SIIHisP?

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]
Superficially this is a stupid question. However, if gayness is inherited, it could be by being a recessive gene or set of genes. Recessive genes means they only come to the fore when they meet the same recessive genes in pairing. A bit like blue eyes, or blood groups etc.

However, if they were strictly genetic and were, in all other respects, neutral (eg having a gay gene didn't confer better hunting skills, or better abilities to survice), there'd be powerful evolutionary forces at work to cut out the gayness (simply put, you don't breed, you don't get in the next generation).

It's possible gayness could survive if carrying the recessive gave the carrier better skills at carrying on into the next generation. Say having the recessive made you superfit, then those carrying the recessive would breed more successfully in the long run than the others.

This is speculative and off the top of my head, but there are bound to be some good works on this somewhere.

Also, this should be in SMP not OOT.

[/ QUOTE ]

Trying to figure out the fitness of having a particular gene isn't simple. For example, some scientists believe that the same gene (or genes) for making men gay (or predisposing them or whatever - I'm simplifying) may be responsible for hyperfertility in women. In these cases you can see why it would not neccessarily be selected against.

Another good example is the sickle cell gene that also provides some resistance to malaria.

[FouTight]

I feel as though homosexuality is in the same vein as a fetish. Albeit, to the extreme, but I think it's not to disimilar from a fetish in that certain people are just aroused by one thing or another, some times it's pretty unsual.

But I also think it's hormonal, because in a large number of cases, homosexual men tend to be much more feminine then their heterosexual coutnerparts, and vice versa for women.

[Georgia Avenue]

[ QUOTE ]
I feel as though homosexuality is in the same vein as a fetish. Albeit, to the extreme, but I think it's not to disimilar from a fetish in that certain people are just aroused by one thing or another, some times it's pretty unsual.

But I also think it's hormonal, because in a large number of cases, homosexual men tend to be much more feminine then their heterosexual coutnerparts, and vice versa for women.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what you think? GFY!

[Clarkmeister]

If only we could isolate the hot lesbian pornstar gene.

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
Are there any animals known to be gay? Like prefer gay sex over hetero sex? I know some animals such as Rams and Wolves mount each other, but that can be explained with social status and stuff. Alpha male exerting his dominance and all that jazz.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the central park zoo in NYC there are 3 homosexual penguin monogamous couples. 2 Female/Female and 1 Male/Male.

[mgsimpleton]

[ QUOTE ]


I'm pretty sure plenty of homosexuals have engaged in heterosexual sex.

[/ QUOTE ]

i was waiting for someone to say that.

i do think there are some hereditary aspects of homosexuality. i have no evidence to back this up other than examples i have seen, but i know so many sets of identical twins who are both gay (and i cannot think of any where one is and one isn't). personally, my parents were both gay (but didn't individually realize it until long after they'd had me and my brother) and i am as well. i dont know what's going on with the bro but in any case i can point to so many families with gay parents and gay children. can this really be merely a coincidence? (and i dont believe for a second that if you grow up around gay parents you will "learn" to be gay)

[peterchi]

[ QUOTE ]
If only we could isolate the hot lesbian pornstar gene.

[/ QUOTE ]
HAHA

[peterchi]

[ QUOTE ]

i do think there are some hereditary aspects of homosexuality. i have no evidence to back this up other than examples i have seen, but i know so many sets of identical twins who are both gay (and i cannot think of any where one is and one isn't). personally, my parents were both gay (but didn't individually realize it until long after they'd had me and my brother) and i am as well. i dont know what's going on with the bro but in any case i can point to so many families with gay parents and gay children. can this really be merely a coincidence? (and i dont believe for a second that if you grow up around gay parents you will "learn" to be gay)

[/ QUOTE ]
Sample size blah blah /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Just kidding. Sorry, I work as a genetic data analyst so I had to throw that at you.

[mgsimpleton]

lol sample size is why i claim i basically only have anecdotal evidence. but it would be one hell of a coincidence because i know too many examples not to be somewhat convinced.

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
Could also be incomplete penetrance. i.e. not everyone who have a genetic susceptibility for cancer gets cancer.

And along those lines, homosexuality is most likely due to some gene x environment interaction, not unlike just about everything else about us.

[/ QUOTE ]

OOT - I thought the above statement was the general understanding of sexual preference. No?

Side-note: I just looked at the 2000 Census Bureau, and it says that 1.6% of the US population identifies themselves as gay / bisexual, from which you can reasonably infer that assuming some level of accuracy (and that everyone who is actually gay / bisexual identifies him or herself as such) that something like 2 out of 100 people are gay?

Does that seem low to you? About right?

-Al

[MrMon]

I was watching my daughter's choir concert a few weeks back and noticed one of the boys. Kid is 9 or 10. Seemed a bit peculiar. Then it struck me that this kid is gay. I know not all gays act in the stereotypical "gay" way, but this kid had all the mannerisms down and he wasn't doing it on purpose, it was just the way he was. I'll bet money this kid turns out to be gay. So I'm betting on it being genetic/hereditary.

[OtisTheMarsupial]

My vote is biological.
Most of the evidence I've seen points towards a genetic component coupled with hormones released in the womb during pregnancy.

[Peter666]

I know two people who act in this effeminate way and I would swear to God they were gay except that I know them personally and they are not.

[Peter666]

If it is, then serial killers and pedophiles are also this way because of genes.

Serial killers, pedophiles, and homosexuals.

"Ok class, can someone tell me which of these are not like the other two?"

[peterchi]

[ QUOTE ]
Serial killers, pedophiles, and homosexuals.

"Ok class, can someone tell me which of these are not like the other two?"

[/ QUOTE ]
It's not a ridiculous statement though. Studies have been done.

Actually, after I posted it, I COULDN'T tell which of these was not like the other.

[CORed]

Dibitter has the right answer as to how it could be hereditary: recessive gene or genes, and possibly the genes confer some sort of evolutinary advantage to monozygotic individuals. I think at this point the scientific answer is "insufficient evidence". I believe that there have been some twin studies done: If being gay is totally genetic, both identical twins would always be gay.

IIRC, there was a fairly high conordence rate, but it wasn't 100%. Also, if both twins were raised by the same parents, it's hard to determine whether the fact that both twins are gay is due to heredity or upbringing. It is possible to look at both fraternal and identical twins. If the concordence rate is higher in identical twins, that's an indication that genetics are a factor. As with many things in human behavior, it's likely that it's a combination of genetics and environment: There may be a gene or genes that crate a predisposition to be gay, but social factors may trigger it. A lot of gay people say they knew they were different from a very early age. However, it's hard to say whether this is real, or a rationalization for a choice which carries qutie a bit of social stigma.

Okay, here's a question for the christian right types. If it can be determined through genetic testing that there is a 80% probability that an unborn child will be gay, should that child be aborted?

[lehighguy]

No fate but the one we make.

[ALawPoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, here's a question for the christian right types. If it can be determined through genetic testing that there is a 80% probability that an unborn child will be gay, should that child be aborted?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. Good question. I look forward to answer.


I tend to think it has to do with a person's brain wiring. This would explain why it is high, but not 100%, correlation among identical twins. I'd imagine identical twins don't have the same IQs or equal predisposition to art/math either.

[andyfox]

There's a hot lesbian pornstar named Gene? If you want to isolate, then why not 3-bet?

As a moderator, I can only be thankful you didn't respond to the "Do you support Bush?" post.

Love,
Andy

[ALawPoker]

LOL andy.

Hmmm. Is there no way to edit your post after X amount of time? In my last post I meant to type "look forward to 'an' answer", and left as is it looks pretty silly.

[andyfox]

There's a time constraint such that after "X" minutes you can no longer edit. I imagine this is because with an unlimited amount of time, you could see where you were wrong and make yourself look good in retrospect. God knows I've wished I had that option in the past, both for embarrassing typos and content. (Ask Rick Nebiolo about the Monty Hall question or David about some of my philosphy posts.) I don't even know how many minutes "X" is. I'll do some querying.