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View Full Version : Curtains made me do it! #2


The Yugoslavian
12-29-2005, 12:56 AM
$215
level 8 (200/400)
3 handed
Seat 10 is the button

Seat 8: devancali25 ( $968 )
Seat 9: wadnbuttAA ( $4240 )
Seat 10: curtainz ( $4792 )

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to curtainz [ 6h Jh ]

I don't think there are any real good reads to be had at this stage except that wadnbuttAA has been able to give curtains a few amazingly well timed walks (what a lucksack /images/graemlins/wink.gif ). So perhaps one could take that into account but meh.

What is your standard play here and why?

Yugoslav

Scuba Chuck
12-29-2005, 12:58 AM
LOL, my standard play is to fold here. You gonna teach us n00bs something?

microbet
12-29-2005, 01:05 AM
No reads on level 8, huh?

My standard play is to fold because I'm dumb. Thank you for this post. It's a push.

The Yugoslavian
12-29-2005, 02:20 AM
micro, it's not that there are no reads....it's just that there aren't any significant ones that would indicate to me, anyway, what these guys will necessarily do 3 handed. I found this one interesting based on what curtains actually did.

If you need a read it would be that 3 handed these guys are going to be a bit 'smart looser' than in a $33....but in a earlier curtains HH some dude called an allin 3 handed i believe with 96o when the pot odds were no good, so whatever.

Yugoslav

jeffraider
12-29-2005, 02:32 AM
I think I'd push here. A lot of the time SB will fold hoping you pwn BB, and BB will fold nearly everything for us. Our hand is pretty dope too!

zipppy
12-29-2005, 02:46 AM
Raise exactly the small stack's stack size, that way it looks like you want to be called. /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

12-29-2005, 03:13 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I think I'd push here. A lot of the time SB will fold hoping you pwn BB, and BB will fold nearly everything for us. Our hand is pretty dope too!

[/ QUOTE ]

bennies
12-29-2005, 06:10 AM
What is more important than reads here is Hero's image. Because mine is usually ruined at this point I think it's a closish fold. If not, then about a 0.6+ push I'd say.

Raising less than allin? Eastbay, when is that update ready?

Scuba Chuck
12-29-2005, 06:26 AM
Your relative position on this hand sucks. Furthermore SB is playing his cards, not hoping for a miracle.

jeffraider
12-29-2005, 06:30 AM
Actually I think pushing is worse than I originally eyeballed it. If there were 2000 less chips in play I think this push is mucho better, and I'm very curious to see what curtains did now.

12-29-2005, 06:34 AM
[ QUOTE ]
LOL, my standard play is to fold here. You gonna teach us n00bs something?

[/ QUOTE ]

curtains
12-29-2005, 06:43 AM
I beleive I made some normal raise to like 1000-1100. My opponent wasnt going to pull some move on me if the SB folded (they seemed tight and unimaginative) and I felt they would lean towards folding all but the best hands. I think that pushing would be a bit foolhardy against this opponent, as I can safely count on a strong hand if they reraise me. The SB was completely out of his mind but I only found that out a bit later.

Of course folding is reasonable as well, I just felt that it was a clear +EV steal situation. Even if Im called by the SB its no problem, because of the dead 400 from the BB.

HesseJam
12-29-2005, 06:46 AM
My standard play at the 15+1 is to push and I am called with amzing hands like T7o. Probably I shouldn't do this in the low buy ins. In the medium buy ins I would push this every day. The calling range at the high buy ins could be like 30% ? Still a push, isn't it?

curtains
12-29-2005, 06:47 AM
I really think pushing is totally unneccessary against most opponents.

HesseJam
12-29-2005, 06:48 AM
I like your line. For me, to correctly apply it, I must learn however to stick to your thought that you'll fold against resistance and not getting suddenly carried away with pot odds or something,

AbelM
12-29-2005, 07:51 AM
No one considering a standard raise to 1100 or so? Of course if wadnbuttAA has any idea at all he'll reraise, but very few players actually do though.

12-29-2005, 07:51 AM
If they are tight and unimaginative you probably almost have the same FE as a push, only now you can fold when they reraise all-in, because then they'd really have a hand.

And if the other big stack is just a little loose pushing is very bad here I think.

12-29-2005, 07:53 AM
[ QUOTE ]

No one considering a standard raise to 1100 or so?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I beleive I made some normal raise to like 1000-1100.

[/ QUOTE ]

AbelM
12-29-2005, 07:56 AM
Yeah i'm always too lazy to read the whole thread /images/graemlins/cool.gif

curtains
12-29-2005, 11:20 AM
[ QUOTE ]
No one considering a standard raise to 1100 or so? Of course if wadnbuttAA has any idea at all he'll reraise, but very few players actually do though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to admit I have always had serious problems with this line of thinking. You feel free to randomly raise anyone who doesnt move allin when there are 3 left, but they will call you with plenty. I've learned to be more aggressive when my opponents havent acted at all, as opposed to assuming they will fold a decent/medium strength hand with 3 left, just because someone else is short.

Comments like "if he has any clue he will move allin with any 2 cards" are kind of silly to me. I would never blame someone for folding quite a decent % of hands from the BB to a standard raise. I guess I don't like the misguided implication that somehow all "good" players know that they should automatically be a bully in such situations. How many times do you need to be called by KTo before you get this idea?

Dr_Jeckyl_00
12-29-2005, 11:46 AM
[ QUOTE ]
$215
level 8 (200/400)
3 handed
Seat 10 is the button

Seat 8: devancali25 ( $968 )
Seat 9: wadnbuttAA ( $4240 )
Seat 10: curtainz ( $4792 )

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to curtainz [ 6h Jh ]

I don't think there are any real good reads to be had at this stage except that wadnbuttAA has been able to give curtains a few amazingly well timed walks (what a lucksack /images/graemlins/wink.gif ). So perhaps one could take that into account but meh.

What is your standard play here and why?

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold this from button, push from SB if Btn folds, check if in BB and no one raises, Stop n Go (my new best friend when someone in LP min raises my BB and SB folds)

J-Lo
12-29-2005, 12:11 PM
What is your pushign range on this hand? 22-77?

How are u playing KT-KQ?

curtains
12-29-2005, 12:14 PM
KQ-KJ I do open push, along with any pair.

The Yugoslavian
12-29-2005, 01:44 PM
Thanks for the rationale curtains.

Conclusion: he made it t1000 I believe and the results are unimportant.

I found this interesting b/c, well, I've never even considered a 'standard' play here to raise normally given stack sizes and being ITM....he's right that BB was fairly unimaginative but BB was also able to call allins with quite a few hands ITM (nothing ridiculous but not uber tight).

Yugoslav

12-29-2005, 05:13 PM
Seems to me like the biggest metagame benefit of playing hands like this would be to make the same bet on AA-QQ. Is that the case or am I still just lost down here on level 2.x?

curtains
12-29-2005, 06:06 PM
yeah doesnt really matter much in this case, the guy wasnt paying attention nor did he understand ideas like this.

Irieguy
12-29-2005, 07:00 PM
I make it 968 to go.

Irieguy