View Full Version : Curtains made me do it! #2
The Yugoslavian
12-29-2005, 12:56 AM
$215
level 8 (200/400)
3 handed
Seat 10 is the button
Seat 8: devancali25 ( $968 )
Seat 9: wadnbuttAA ( $4240 )
Seat 10: curtainz ( $4792 )
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to curtainz [ 6h Jh ]
I don't think there are any real good reads to be had at this stage except that wadnbuttAA has been able to give curtains a few amazingly well timed walks (what a lucksack /images/graemlins/wink.gif ). So perhaps one could take that into account but meh.
What is your standard play here and why?
Yugoslav
Scuba Chuck
12-29-2005, 12:58 AM
LOL, my standard play is to fold here. You gonna teach us n00bs something?
microbet
12-29-2005, 01:05 AM
No reads on level 8, huh?
My standard play is to fold because I'm dumb. Thank you for this post. It's a push.
The Yugoslavian
12-29-2005, 02:20 AM
micro, it's not that there are no reads....it's just that there aren't any significant ones that would indicate to me, anyway, what these guys will necessarily do 3 handed. I found this one interesting based on what curtains actually did.
If you need a read it would be that 3 handed these guys are going to be a bit 'smart looser' than in a $33....but in a earlier curtains HH some dude called an allin 3 handed i believe with 96o when the pot odds were no good, so whatever.
Yugoslav
jeffraider
12-29-2005, 02:32 AM
I think I'd push here. A lot of the time SB will fold hoping you pwn BB, and BB will fold nearly everything for us. Our hand is pretty dope too!
zipppy
12-29-2005, 02:46 AM
Raise exactly the small stack's stack size, that way it looks like you want to be called. /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif
[ QUOTE ]
I think I'd push here. A lot of the time SB will fold hoping you pwn BB, and BB will fold nearly everything for us. Our hand is pretty dope too!
[/ QUOTE ]
bennies
12-29-2005, 06:10 AM
What is more important than reads here is Hero's image. Because mine is usually ruined at this point I think it's a closish fold. If not, then about a 0.6+ push I'd say.
Raising less than allin? Eastbay, when is that update ready?
Scuba Chuck
12-29-2005, 06:26 AM
Your relative position on this hand sucks. Furthermore SB is playing his cards, not hoping for a miracle.
jeffraider
12-29-2005, 06:30 AM
Actually I think pushing is worse than I originally eyeballed it. If there were 2000 less chips in play I think this push is mucho better, and I'm very curious to see what curtains did now.
[ QUOTE ]
LOL, my standard play is to fold here. You gonna teach us n00bs something?
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curtains
12-29-2005, 06:43 AM
I beleive I made some normal raise to like 1000-1100. My opponent wasnt going to pull some move on me if the SB folded (they seemed tight and unimaginative) and I felt they would lean towards folding all but the best hands. I think that pushing would be a bit foolhardy against this opponent, as I can safely count on a strong hand if they reraise me. The SB was completely out of his mind but I only found that out a bit later.
Of course folding is reasonable as well, I just felt that it was a clear +EV steal situation. Even if Im called by the SB its no problem, because of the dead 400 from the BB.
HesseJam
12-29-2005, 06:46 AM
My standard play at the 15+1 is to push and I am called with amzing hands like T7o. Probably I shouldn't do this in the low buy ins. In the medium buy ins I would push this every day. The calling range at the high buy ins could be like 30% ? Still a push, isn't it?
curtains
12-29-2005, 06:47 AM
I really think pushing is totally unneccessary against most opponents.
HesseJam
12-29-2005, 06:48 AM
I like your line. For me, to correctly apply it, I must learn however to stick to your thought that you'll fold against resistance and not getting suddenly carried away with pot odds or something,
AbelM
12-29-2005, 07:51 AM
No one considering a standard raise to 1100 or so? Of course if wadnbuttAA has any idea at all he'll reraise, but very few players actually do though.
If they are tight and unimaginative you probably almost have the same FE as a push, only now you can fold when they reraise all-in, because then they'd really have a hand.
And if the other big stack is just a little loose pushing is very bad here I think.
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No one considering a standard raise to 1100 or so?
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I beleive I made some normal raise to like 1000-1100.
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AbelM
12-29-2005, 07:56 AM
Yeah i'm always too lazy to read the whole thread /images/graemlins/cool.gif
curtains
12-29-2005, 11:20 AM
[ QUOTE ]
No one considering a standard raise to 1100 or so? Of course if wadnbuttAA has any idea at all he'll reraise, but very few players actually do though.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to admit I have always had serious problems with this line of thinking. You feel free to randomly raise anyone who doesnt move allin when there are 3 left, but they will call you with plenty. I've learned to be more aggressive when my opponents havent acted at all, as opposed to assuming they will fold a decent/medium strength hand with 3 left, just because someone else is short.
Comments like "if he has any clue he will move allin with any 2 cards" are kind of silly to me. I would never blame someone for folding quite a decent % of hands from the BB to a standard raise. I guess I don't like the misguided implication that somehow all "good" players know that they should automatically be a bully in such situations. How many times do you need to be called by KTo before you get this idea?
Dr_Jeckyl_00
12-29-2005, 11:46 AM
[ QUOTE ]
$215
level 8 (200/400)
3 handed
Seat 10 is the button
Seat 8: devancali25 ( $968 )
Seat 9: wadnbuttAA ( $4240 )
Seat 10: curtainz ( $4792 )
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to curtainz [ 6h Jh ]
I don't think there are any real good reads to be had at this stage except that wadnbuttAA has been able to give curtains a few amazingly well timed walks (what a lucksack /images/graemlins/wink.gif ). So perhaps one could take that into account but meh.
What is your standard play here and why?
Yugoslav
[/ QUOTE ]
Fold this from button, push from SB if Btn folds, check if in BB and no one raises, Stop n Go (my new best friend when someone in LP min raises my BB and SB folds)
What is your pushign range on this hand? 22-77?
How are u playing KT-KQ?
curtains
12-29-2005, 12:14 PM
KQ-KJ I do open push, along with any pair.
The Yugoslavian
12-29-2005, 01:44 PM
Thanks for the rationale curtains.
Conclusion: he made it t1000 I believe and the results are unimportant.
I found this interesting b/c, well, I've never even considered a 'standard' play here to raise normally given stack sizes and being ITM....he's right that BB was fairly unimaginative but BB was also able to call allins with quite a few hands ITM (nothing ridiculous but not uber tight).
Yugoslav
Seems to me like the biggest metagame benefit of playing hands like this would be to make the same bet on AA-QQ. Is that the case or am I still just lost down here on level 2.x?
curtains
12-29-2005, 06:06 PM
yeah doesnt really matter much in this case, the guy wasnt paying attention nor did he understand ideas like this.
Irieguy
12-29-2005, 07:00 PM
I make it 968 to go.
Irieguy
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