What is wrong with the Commerce on Saturday nights??

[tiger1]

I'm just visiting the Commerce this weekend for the first time playing some $20/$40.
A couple maniacs sit down as well as a few aggressive player who play every hand to the river. It's capped every hand before the flop but called by 6 players all the way to the river.
Is this just bingo or is there actual skill involved in this sort of play?
Unfortunately, I got my butt kicked in this game. I was running bad and none of my cards were holding up... is this typical for Saturday nights? Do you guys who play there regularly make a killing when you are running good and split early when you are running bad?

[Gabe]

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I'm just visiting the Commerce this weekend for the first time playing some $20/$40.

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I was there also.
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... is this typical for Saturday nights?

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Yes, but I think usually Fridays are the wildest.
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is there actual skill involved in this sort of play?

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Yes, there is.
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Do you guys who play there regularly .....split early when you are running bad?

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No. This in this kind of game how you are running makes little differnce on how you play or how the other player perceive you.

[rtrombone]

[B K]

Maybe you could describe some of the skills and tactics that you use to beat these types of games.

[adrianus]

Is there anything wrong in that game /images/graemlins/confused.gif???? Seems like heaven to me... just bring some extra $$$ in case of a bad run. Or you can only play AA, KK, AKs, (QQ) to reduce swings and still have a good chance to beat the game /images/graemlins/grin.gif
...or step back in limits if you can't handlle the swings.

[JimRivett]

Wow, you are the first person ever to visit our city and play in one of our casinos and NOT make a killing. I was beginning to think that the only people who win in Los Angeles were visiting 2+2er's! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

On a slightly more serious note, weekend games tend to be much looser and more 'wild' than week day games. I know of at least one player (maybe he's a pro) who won't play on Friday night or Saturday, things can calm down a little on Sunday, or perhaps by then they (the loose players) have all run out of money.

Regards, Jim

[Lee Jones]

Well, the first answer is that you don't do anything subtle. You wait for a monster hand and then you just pound them mercilessly with it. I don't understand why Jim's pro friend doesn't want to play those games unless he just doesn't like that sort of melee or he's variance-averse.

First, you don't get into a pot unless you feel pretty good about paying four bets to see a flop. Big pairs, suited aces. That's probably enough and any suited aces other than AKs and AQs may be too much.

The other thing is that if you take AKs and accidentally flop top-top, then you have to do everything possible to get people out of the pot. That may actually entail waiting until the turn to get in a raise if you think it gives you a better chance of clearing the field.

The variance in those games is huge, but it's clear (to me, anyway) that there is significant EV to be had from skillful play. It's just not anything that's going to make the top ten interest list on 2+2.

Regards, Lee

[andyfox]

"I don't understand why Jim's pro friend doesn't want to play those games unless he just doesn't like that sort of melee or he's variance-averse."

I heard a pro complaining about his bad beats to another pro on a Saturday afternoon. The listener told him he's just got to realize he's going to win a lower percentage of the time in the wild games, if he doesn't like it, don't play during the weekend "crazy" times. The complaining pro is very conservative; it would stand to reason he wouldn't enjoy playing in the wild games as much as the "normal" games.

[JimRivett]

Hello Lee,

I don't understand why Jim's pro friend doesn't want to play those games unless he just doesn't like that sort of melee or he's variance-averse.

I'm sure part of it is the high variance.

And perhaps part of it is the confusion and noise. (1)

And perhaps part of it is, like everyone else he needs a couple of days off each week.

Regards, Jim

(1) I kid you not, at Hawaiian Gardens on most evenings and especially Friday and Saturday nights, the person calling the names from the board never stops, he/she is continually calling names for at least 4 hours straight.

[tiger1]

Well, I did do well on Friday night. People were actually fearful of me and folding after the flop. It must have been early before everyone got stuck...
I had a particular player who hit me on 3 hands in a row. I had a top pair of kings with a flush draw (KQ4710) and AJ bet the entire hand for me (heads up) and hit the gut shot on the river.
Then he raised with 99 and I again flopped top pair (K2359) and bet into 4 players all the way. He also hit his 9 on the river to take the entire pot.
The very next hand I got 1010 and raised and it was capped. The board showed a 4 card straight 3456 on the turn and he again rivered a king on the river with KQ offsuit.
I also lost a huge pot with a nut flush (king high) to a 23 on the river when the A fell.
I would call this running bad, not playing bad. And the variance is simply higher than most $20/$40 games that I am used to.
I don't want to complain about bad beats but when 59 suited is capping it all the way on a draw and hits a straight and AA get crushed by K2 and AK get crushed with an AK flop by 33 running 4 card flush heads up, that is just plain running bad.
Unfortuately, I think that my cards were simply not holding up. Too bad because I was salivating at all the action and dead money in every pot.
Maybe next time I'll come wih a bigger bank roll and get my cheese back.

[Michael Davis]

"but when 59 suited is capping it all the way on a draw"

Did you consider that once he picked up some sort of draw, he was correct to do this?

-Mike

[tiger1]

Not against only 2 other players when I flop top set in the blind and checkraise on the turn. One guy in with a two card heart draw on the flop and the other in with a 2 card diamond draw on the turn (he peels to go runner runner). Not the best for me, but not the worst senario.