$22: TT in early levels

I never know quite what to do with TT or 99 in early levels. Anyone raise this up here looking to isolate the limper with a weak ace or low pocket pair, or do you play it essentially for set value like I did?

PartyPoker, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com (http://www.pregopoker.com/hhconv/convert)

UTG (t745)
UTG+1 (t755)
Hero (t940)
MP2 (t725)
MP3 (t705)
CO (t775)
Button (t1790)
SB (t955)
BB (t610)

Preflop: Hero is in MP1 with T/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, UTG+1 calls t15, Hero calls t15

[1C5]

I usually call here, usually raise with JJ and always with QQ.

[Askilus]

I would play it the same, for what it's worth. I usually limp in EP and raise in LP, with TT anyway.

I raise TT+ in this spot.

[jmillerdls]

I don't raise with anything but QQ-AA in the first 2 levels (I might do a big move with AK if there are a bunch of limpers), but that's just me.

I limp 99-JJ given the right circumstances.

[mosdef]

I strongly disagree witb those who say raise here. In a $22, if you raise to a "reasonable" amount, let's say 50, you will in all likelyhood get callers (which you don't want with TT since the flop will so often contain overcards). Sure, if you flop a set you're in business, but you would have been anyway if you had just limped.

Conversely, if you make a hefty raise to "isolate", then your raise plus an anticipated c-bet will be 1/4 of your stack or more.

IMO it just doesn't make sense to raise TT here. The opponents are so keen to hand over their stacks when you hit a set that you can play them "just" for set value. Most of the additional value that you get from raising preflop comes from getting the opponent to fold to a c-bet on the flop, in which case the fact that you have TT is irrelevant.

I don't mind getting callers when holding TT. Just play some poker on the flop.

I raise to t75 every single time. I don't play the 800 chip games anymore. Obviously it might change the correct play, and I guess this type of play is a matter of opinion.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind getting callers when holding TT. Just play some poker on the flop.

I raise to t75 every single time. I don't play the 800 chip games anymore. Obviously it might change the correct play, and I guess this type of play is a matter of opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

My statements are based on 800 chip SNGs, and that is a very important part of the equation. You just don't have enough of a stack to "play poker on the flop" like you are suggesting. If you are going to give advice that isn't directly related to the OP's situation you need to say so in your answer.

Sure it's important. But If I think a given play can make me money, I make the play. The guide made by AleoMagus is fine, but it's very likely that it's not the most profitable way to play.

Just keep limping. Honestly I don't care. I gave my advice with the best thoughts.

And 800 chips is enough to play poker.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
I gave my advice with the best thoughts.

And 800 chips is enough to play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

You haven't said anything to justify this. You've only said "this is what I do".

I'm not saying "limp because Aleo's guide say's limp". I'm saying limp for the reasons I gave. You haven't given any explanations at all.

ok.

I raise TT because I'm only beat by JJ-AA. Most likely these 4 hands are not dealt. I protect my hand by raising. If ppl call with overs I'm ahead on most flops. And I like to play bigger pots when I'm ahead.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
I protect my hand by raising. If ppl call with overs I'm ahead on most flops.

[/ QUOTE ]

But this is wrong. If you raise medium, say 50ish, you will get called by all kinds of J/Q/K/A hands (IF you are playing a low buy-in at Party. I acknowledge that this is not true at higher buy-ins or at other sites). ~70% of flops will have overcards. You will be facing so many opponents that it is very likely that at least one of them will have you beat. The only way you are good is if you flop a T with the over cards. You didn't need to raise preflop to get this set value.

If you raise more, say 75-100, you may be able to knock down the number of callers to where you will be ahead on most flops. If that's the case, what are you doing? Betting out? Villain will just fold. Giving free cards? Not such a good idea.

The only value you ADD to the set value by showing strength preflop is the value of stealing the pot on the flop when villain misses. If it was worth raising TT to add that value, then if would be worth raising 57o, 92s, etc.

I play it the exact same in the first couple levels MP, JJ as well for that matter. It is just way too vulnerable, and there is more to lose than to gain at this point.

Raising to 50ish is not medium. It's too small. I raise to t75 with all my raising hands: TT+, AK.

And you talk about extra value from the ability to steal on the flop? I like the idea of knowing whether the 2+2'er in the blinds could have 65o or not.

And please don't even think of comparing TT with 92s.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
And you talk about extra value from the ability to steal on the flop? I like the idea of knowing whether the 2+2'er in the blinds could have 65o or not.

And please don't even think of comparing TT with 92s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I surrender. The first of these two statements makes no sense, and the second indicates that you didn't understand my post.

Thanks for playing.

I said that it wasn't the only gained value. I did understand it - you were talking about the value of representing aces with any two cards. I'm just saying the comparison is stupid.

A limper with an Ace will not pay you off if the flop misses him. Low PP will not likely play unless they hit a set - and then YOU are paying them off.

So - limp and let many people to limp in and stay in. If you hit the set on KTx or ATx or even QTx board - most likely someone will pay you off, sometimes with their entire stack. The more people see the flop - the more people you have to get a piece of teh flop and pay you. With AQs+ and QQ+ you want to isolate, with JJ and below early on - limp for set value.

[microbet]

Open up Pokertracker/Pokeroffice and compare how you guys do with TT in the early rounds of 800 chippers. Wouldn't prove anything by itself, but might be interesting.

[RobGW]

I could see arguments for raising or limping. I think raising is more +EV but limping may allow you to make ITM more often. I think more than anything it depends on your ability and your style. If you are aggressive then raise. If you are a puss then limp. jk all you limpers.