A Turn Raise (3 of 3)

[Clarkmeister]

The forum is kinda slow lately, so here are 3 more hands ala my "A Turn Check" series.

In all 3 examples, I ask you to put me on a hand and rate my play based on what you put my opponent on.

Hand #3: 20-40

I open raise UTG+1. Loose passive fish coldcalls in MP, straightforward but thinking BB calls. 3 to the flop.

Flop: 8h 4h 3s. BB bets, I call, MP folds.

Turn: Ah. BB hesitatingly bets, I raise.

[Diplomat]

I would say you have any pocket pair bigger than 8's or an ace. I'd say he has a hand like 89s.

Or you've got nothing and are trying to push him off a hand. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

-Diplomat

[Philuva]

He has 78 or 89. I think you have AK or AQ with either the K or Q of hearts.

I think you would raise that flop with a player to act behind you if you had a pocket pair greater than 8, so that leads me to think you have a big A with one heart.

[delroylindo]

BB 8,9 clark A,K w/ K of heart

[elysium]

hi clark
there isn't a lot to go on here, but i think you have pocket jacks no suit. it looks like your trying to stop the free-card. it look like your opponent may have a 4 with a high heart.

[Clarkmeister]

"Hand #3: 20-40

I open raise UTG+1. Loose passive fish coldcalls in MP, straightforward but thinking BB calls. 3 to the flop.

Flop: 8h 4h 3s. BB bets, I call, MP folds.

Turn: Ah. BB hesitatingly bets, I raise"

I had KsJs. His hesitation, coupled with my initial read of flopped top pair or a small pocket pair caused me to decide to raise.

Comments?

[CrackerZack]

I'm thinking since you pointed out he hesistantly bet and you're posting this, you have something like QQ with Qh. But i'm 0-2 so lets see if I can complete the trifecta.

[Philuva]

"straightforward but thinking BB calls"

Given this read of the player I like the turn raise. Altough, if he calls the turn raise, he is probably calling the river bet as well. So I would give up after the turn if I don't hit my K or J.

[nykenny]

Do you ever fold on the flop after u raised btf? knowing you are behind with something like possible 6 outs? :P

I lean toward folding or raising on flop.

Kenny

[Ed S.]

Good raise, good read. The question you have to ask yourself here is; is this straight forward player capable of laying down his seemingly second pair when you represent the Ace? This has to work a majority of the time to make this play profitable. As long as it can be profitable in the long run and if he doesn't get wise to what you are doing then, I say do it.


Ed S.

[elysium]

hi clark
you played terribly here. first you clark raising in from EP with that? awww clark. and then your opponent hesitates and bets after hesitating and you take that as a sign of being weak? and you raise with a three-flush on only you don't even have any part of the three flush? terrible clark. you ask for our opinions and i just can't believe you of all people would behave in so frivolous a manner with your money.

there is no way that this opponent is folding. there is no way that you will win. this fiasco started when you raised in from EP with that KJ or whatever it was. clark, you need to get back to your old style basics that you've slipped away from of late. you are playing too many hands. i saw A6o on the previous post. a total loser even if you are a great. and you are one of the greats, but now you think your so good as to be able to over-come math; and you think an opponent who hesitates before betting out into you means he will respect your greatness and fold on command? some do clark, but not this guy, i assure you of at least that. and we all can see the inevitability of his calling and your losing and we see also how easily avoidable this situation was. but you were blinded by your greatness.

clark jump down off the high horse just for a while, and suffer in patience with the rest of us while together as one we patiently wait for the right cards at the right time against the right opponent before we make our wager. anything else is tomfoolery.

[Coilean]

I had you on AK-J or KhQx, with lower chances of slowplayed AA or KhKx. The BB seems to have an 8 or medium pocket pair (maybe a heart flush if he is prone to acting).

I like your turn raise (given your KJs) if made sparingly against a tight/straightforward opponent here, but you seem to be trying to push people off of top pairs all the time.. maybe it's just because of a skewed sample due to your "Turn Raise" theme in all these hands. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Nottom]

Why would he fold with 2 overcards and a backdoor flush draw?

[Clarkmeister]

I raised, he folded before I could finish putting out my raise. Literally.

My call on the flop is so "obviously" an unimproved big ace that its criminal to not let him know that it is indeed what I have. Sklansky lists this type of play as a reason why JT as a steal hand can be better than AJ, because with the JT, you can still represent the Ace. If my read is right and he flopped top pair, then I win the pot, if its wrong, I likely get 3-bet by a flush and can safely fold.

[Clarkmeister]

"Do you ever fold on the flop after u raised btf? knowing you are behind with something like possible 6 outs? :P

I lean toward folding or raising on flop"

Why would I fold on the flop with 2 good overcards that don't complement the board and a backdoor flush draw? Nothing wrong with calling and allowing the calling station behind me to declare his interest in the flop.

[Clarkmeister]

El,

Every single person above you (including you) put me on a hand that beat top pair, either a big ace or an overpair. Do you not think this is equally "obvious" to the thinking player in the blind?

"clark jump down off the high horse just for a while, and suffer in patience with the rest of us while together as one we patiently wait for the right cards at the right time against the right opponent before we make our wager. "

Funny, that's exactly what I thought I did on this exact hand. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[hot tub man # 1]

I think you really need to be at the table to be able to say if your play was correct. I take it there was some feel to the hand and you got a sense that he wasnt all that strong. Obviously, since he folded, seems like you did fine.

My only question is, why the preflop call? The pot isnt big enough to peeling with a couple of likely live overcards and a backdoor draw. Were you planning on putting a move on him if a queen or a ten fell as well? Once the ace hits, you are in a good situation to try and get him off the hand, but Im not sure a fold on the flop wasnt the right play.

As for bringing it in with a raise, I like it way more than just limping in. if the game is right, and your table image is OK, I think its alright.

[elysium]

hi clark
no clark you didn't. you raised in with a lousy KJs and then bluff raised on a board that a slightly better opponent may reraise you with nothing on, because the bluff is so apparent. but i will say this; i do give a lot of opponents credit for being smarter poker players than often their play later proves that credence true, but you'd never pull that one on me o' mister clarkmeister. you'd soon be staring down the barrels of a nice hefty reraise, that's for sure. and while i'm sure i'd be facing rockets or cowboys, i see the beginnings of a trend clark; a disturbing trend.

[Clarkmeister]

"you raised in with a lousy KJs and then bluff raised on a board that a slightly better opponent may reraise you with nothing on, because the bluff is so apparent."

It wasn't very apparent to you. You put me on a hand that beat a pair of 8's. As did everyone else who responded before I put my hand up.

"never pull that one on me o' mister clarkmeister"

I make considerable modifications to my game when playing 2+2ers El. You are more than welcome to try your hand. /images/graemlins/smile.gif