AJo ......help?!?

SB is complete unknown. Only second hand at table.

UTG+1 is an absolute muppet. Massive donator and has reloaded twice. He's on my buddy list for ever.

MP2 has moved up to 1/2 recently. I used to play with him a lot at .5\1. He was always loose and pretty aggressive preflop. He's tightened up a little and overcompensated on preflop aggression. He was always very solid post flop and demonstrated ability to put moves on here and there. So, not a donk.



Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (11 SB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB caps</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (14 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (26 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 30 BB

I think there's room for discussion on everything other than preflop.

Well, a little discussion pre-flop...AJo PFR UTG is a little bold - but I know you are solid Kwaz so I trust your instincts.

Flop: vn, hit you hard - but that is a VERY coordinated board and despite SB's and your intentions to limit the field there are two overcallers there, which is a concern (even if one is a muppet*). I suspect you are up vs. a lot of draws.

Turn: I like your line, I think you had to slow down especially after the overcallers cold-called.

River: No way I'm folding based on pot size but we are most likely beat by a straight or flush or both.

Well played all-around.

* Remember, Dr. Bunson Honeydew is a muppet and is one cold, shrewd mofo!

[Sykes]

I don't know if I like or dislike the turn raise. The more I look at it, I hate it. Unless the SB is tight and doesn't 3 bet QQ/JJ or thinks that QJ is worth a cap and a 3 bet on flop/turn, I hate the turn raise. I would have to put SB as a complete donk to do this without anything less than 2 pair. And even if he has 2 pair, the only 2 pair you're beating is QJ.

Knowing this, I would just call the turn and call the river.

[KingOtter]

Oh I like raising AJo in early position. AJo is a hand you want to play with few people, not many. So finding a way to limit your opponents with AJo is essential.

I think you played it fine... SB really likes his hand and there is no talking him out of it. Either an extremely overplayed flush draw, or he has QQ and is a wimp pre-flop. So calling down after the turn re-raise is fine.

KO

[bottomset]

call the flop c/r
raise the turn

there are a lot of bad turn cards, and the 3bet really doesn't protect your hand, if you call the flop, and raise the turn you will be offering something like 6.5/1 and force the field to call 2cold .. which protects against the gutshots

[Disconnected]

[ QUOTE ]
call the flop c/r
raise the turn

there are a lot of bad turn cards, and the 3bet really doesn't protect your hand, if you call the flop, and raise the turn you will be offering something like 6.5/1 and force the field to call 2cold .. which protects against the gutshots

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. Also, if you're ahead of SB on the flop, he won't bet the turn for you if you 3 bet, but he will lead the turn with hands that you're ahead of if you just call his c/r.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
the only 2 pair you're beating is QJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

A8/Q8/J8.

[Disconnected]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the only 2 pair you're beating is QJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

A8/Q8/J8.

[/ QUOTE ]

But would those hands check/raise/cap the flop?

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, a little discussion pre-flop...AJo PFR UTG is a little bold

[/ QUOTE ]

I raise AJo from pretty much well any position &gt;95% of the time.

*grunch*

preflop and flop i play it the same as you. after that i just call down. hard to put someone on a set because you'd think there'd be more action preflop from them, and hard to give credit to the flopped broadway. but with your pfr and your flop action you are telling them you have a big hand and they don't seem to care too much, so that's when i would go into call down mode. maybe someone had Kx diamonds? that would suck. or maybe AQ? People coldcall that a lot.

BBB

[shant]

I'd call the flop checkraise intending to raise the SB on the turn.

[Eeegah]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise AJo from pretty much well any position &gt;95% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

We're getting tangential here, but I'm generally pretty meh about raising it from the blinds whe we can't force anyone out. But if it's just me and a single limper then hell yeah.

[ QUOTE ]
call the flop c/r
raise the turn



[/ QUOTE ]

Catch 22.

How bad does your gut turn when he checks the turn after just calling his flop raise....

How happy are you when he c/raises an entire field, including a preflop raiser on an AQJ board and then follows it up on the turn.....

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
call the flop c/r
raise the turn



[/ QUOTE ]

Catch 22.

How bad does your gut turn when he checks the turn after just calling his flop raise....

How happy are you when he c/raises an entire field, including a preflop raiser on an AQJ board and then follows it up on the turn.....

[/ QUOTE ]

if he checks the turn you protect your hand just as good as you do with a flop3bet(re:not at all)

check the raising with a potentially secondbest hand to knock out other players section from HEPFAP, you really want to fold gutshots behind you .. the only way to do that is to call the c/r and raise the turn

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
call the flop c/r
raise the turn



[/ QUOTE ]

Catch 22.

How bad does your gut turn when he checks the turn after just calling his flop raise....

How happy are you when he c/raises an entire field, including a preflop raiser on an AQJ board and then follows it up on the turn.....

[/ QUOTE ]

if he checks the turn you protect your hand just as good as you do with a flop3bet(re:not at all)

check the raising with a potentially secondbest hand to knock out other players section from HEPFAP, you really want to fold gutshots behind you .. the only way to do that is to call the c/r and raise the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the concept that I was thinking about when posting the hand. It's one of my favourites in poker. But then I got to thinking...

The concept of raising with the second best hand implies that by raising and knocking out other hands, Hero will increase his equity in the pot and therefore justify/outway the investment/cost of protection.

In this case though, if Hero is behind, he can't increase his equity by knocking out other players.

Should Hero's focus now be extracting maximum value from the other players instead?
What % of the time do we need to be ahead of SB for protection to become our priority?

Thoughts????

I think this requires a lot more thought.