PS $27 turbos = PP $?

[jmillerdls]

With PS's VPP program coming out, I am seriously considering jumping ship from Party. I currently play the $22's on Party with about a 15% ROI after crushing the $11's.

What I am wanting to know is whether a $22 player on Party can win at the $27 turbos on Stars. I hear the players are better over there, but the structure, while a quite different, seems to still come down to PushBot strategy, which I feel very comfortable with.

I have played a limited amount on Stars, but obviously prefer the customer service, and software over Party. However, the ability to get cash R*k*b*c* from Party is certainly nice. No cash from Stars, but I can see similar value in Stars program. So..any information is welcome.

[11t]

I have played the 16's and the 27's pretty extensively with moderate success. I would say the deeper stacks early on can be a hassle if you are a straight forward 800 chipper. Of course, pushbot works perfectly fine.

Honestly, I think the fact that you are putting 25 into the pool and only paying 2 to the house in some ways counts as a form of rakeback. Just my thought though.

[jmillerdls]

well that's certainly a point I hadn't really thought about. Thanks for mentioning that.

One thing I've always wondered, is why if a) PS has no rakeback, and b) PS has the toughest players (as is generally agreed) does PS continue to have the toughest players? Who are these people? Generally they aren't 2+2ers right? (as it certainly sounds like most of the hardcore members of this forum are at party) (do I use enough parentheses?)

Does the PS = tougher than PP maxim still hold at the $100/$200 levels, or at this point is it mostly just pros and wannabes beating each other up?

-confused in Colorado

[Olback]

Well i have yet to master the $27 on Stars but i have heard that the $16 and $27 and beatable. Apparently the $60 however and alot harder. Can anyone confirm that?

And you are right playign 80% rake compared to Party plus the VIP program must be better then rakeback on Party. (but i cannot be bothered to do the maths on it)

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
Well i have yet to master the $27 on Stars but i have heard that the $16 and $27 and beatable. Apparently the $60 however and alot harder. Can anyone confirm that?

And you are right playign 80% rake compared to Party plus the VIP program must be better then rakeback on Party. (but i cannot be bothered to do the maths on it)

[/ QUOTE ]

there is no rakeback on partypoker /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Olback]

Yeah i know, but people keep complaning that it is a bad idea and i was pointing that it is probabrly better then Party with RB (if you could get RB).

[UMTerp]

I think there's a much bigger skill difference between the $60's and $114's than the $27's to the $60's, though I guess it's a matter of opinion to some degree.

[Olback]

So the $60 are beatable?

I'm probably breakeven, and I have a ton of leaks (working out primarily at the $27s now).

God I wish I could learn how to get even the simplest point across w/o parentheses (probably says something about my disjointed thought process).

[UMTerp]

Sure, any game is beatable. I don't keep the best stats in the world, but I've beaten the $60's pretty significantly (well over 10%, and probably closer to 15-18% over thousands while multitabling). I've taken shots at the $114's on occasion, though not recently, and I'm convinced that my hourly is optimal at the $60's because I'm not comfortable playing more than four tables higher than that at once.

[Olback]

I have found from my limited playing experience on Stars turbos that the game seem to contain more good players and less 'fish' is this a fair assesment?

[UMTerp]

Don't know, I'm not familiar with the games at Party to compare. I promise you'll find your share of donks at Stars too.

[Olback]

Well i guess i be back to Stars in the new year.

and i will avoid you /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[jmillerdls]

Man, its tough to decide. You have the the Party tournies, that I know I can beat...and get some of my money back at the end of the month.

Then you have the better customer service and software of PS. The games that I won't be all that confident in, an no cash back for my play...although an interesting VPP program. But, also, less rake if you want to look at the extra $5 in prize money per player for the same rake charge.

I'm having trouble deciding where to play come January 1st. I'd really like to commit to one or the other so I get full value for my play...I guess I better make up my mind quickly.

[Olback]

I know what you mean. But how long will your under the table RB plan last?

[gisb0rne]

Threads like these make me wonder if the PStars games are going to just get tougher. Are donks really going to be drawn to PStars by their rewards program? I doubt it.

[jmillerdls]

And that's just one more concern I have. I get the feeling that the already tougher Stars may just get more difficult with the addition of the VPP program. So many factors to take into consideration, lol.

Is anyone in a fairly similar situation to me, that has made up their mind?

*Play the $22's on Party for a comfortable profit
*Gets cash at the end of the month

*Prefers Stars support/software
*feels the VPP offer may be close in value given the $5 extra in prize money per player with the same rake

[jwesty5]

[ QUOTE ]
Threads like these make me wonder if the PStars games are going to just get tougher. Are donks really going to be drawn to PStars by their rewards program? I doubt it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear this time and again. My guess is that not many donk's get rakeback or even know what it means. If ever there was a program to lure more donk's over to PS this would be it.

My take on this is that in general--let's call them "non-pro"--players simply wind up on the 1st site they hear about. I started playing about 5 months ago, wound up on PS because of Greg Raymer's shirt and Moneymaker's hat. I even tried UB early on, but didn't like anything about it as I was already used to PS.

So, in theory if PS becomes far and away the leading site, play could become softer. Until the new "non-pros" stop flowing in. [Shudder] Then again by my reasoning, most of the new players should be heading to FullTilt. Are they? How is the FT software/support?

In general with technology, marketing seems to win the day early on. But eventually quality and support win out. With 2 important exceptions: #1 the "quality" company survives long enough for customers to wise up, and #2 the "marketing" company can't create some kind of natural sticky monopoly (ala Microsoft). I guess my money would be on PS as I don't see PP ever draining their player base enough to kill them.

[Guthrie]

I started out playing SnGs on Stars, and only played a few on Empire before Party murdered them, so I'm back to Stars. I've been beating the 22s at a decent ROI, and I'm a complete noob to SnGs. I just recently started to get the hang of the pushbot method, and about the same time moved to the turbo 27s.

It seems that the 27s are far more aggressive than the 22s, lots of pushing, often with junk, on the first three levels. I started out on an incredible heater, then came back to earth. While I'm fairly confident I can beat the 27s, variance is a bitch, so I'm now at the 16s, which seem to be the best combination of rake and players, at least for me. The difference in rake between the 11s and the 16s alone amounts to substantial rakeback. You get 50% more money in play for the same dollar. Play 1,000 tournies a month and that dollar adds up.

For the near term, I'll be happy with the Stars swag. I can spend a ton of points in their store. I can use a couple of 2001FPs, a TV, and plenty of other stuff that's as good as cash.

[jmillerdls]

Well, let's just hope Stars does a good time advertising it, which I'm not sure how they can.