LO8 Give me a better line

[kitaristi0]

I think I missed some value with this hand. Is there a better line?

***** Hand History for Game 3270019121 *****
$2/$4 Omaha Hi/Lo - Tuesday, December 27, 16:10:10 EDT 2005
Table Table 65785 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: McFly ( $69.03 )
Seat 2: vistamista ( $22.66 )
Seat 5: bigsid50 ( $102.03 )
Seat 7: SIMEWIN ( $102.82 )
Seat 9: amchel04 ( $45.77 )
Seat 10: creedclrwtr ( $82.62 )
Seat 8: virtahepo ( $189 )
Seat 4: assman2 ( $93 )
Seat 6: modaddy3 ( $76.76 )
modaddy3 posts small blind [$1].
SIMEWIN posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to virtahepo [ K/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif ]
virtahepo calls [$2].
amchel04 calls [$2].
creedclrwtr folds.
McFly calls [$2].
vistamista raises [$4].
assman2 folds.
modaddy3 folds.
SIMEWIN calls [$2].
virtahepo calls [$2].
amchel04 calls [$2].
McFly calls [$2].

A slightly loose call preflop, but double suited kings with all cards >9 is playable IMO.

** Dealing Flop ** [ 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif ]
SIMEWIN checks.
virtahepo bets [$2].
amchel04 calls [$2].
McFly folds.
vistamista raises [$4].
SIMEWIN folds.
virtahepo calls [$2].
amchel04 calls [$2].

My plan was to bet the flop, get a couple of calls and then have the PF raiser raise. Perfect.

But how do I continue on the turn? For some reason I went for a check/call or check/raise, falling victim to my old slowplaying habits, but the original raiser passed. Is betting out better?

** Dealing Turn ** [ K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ]
virtahepo checks.
amchel04 checks.
vistamista checks.

River is standard?

** Dealing River ** [ 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif ]
virtahepo bets [$4].
amchel04 calls [$4].
vistamista folds.

[shakingspear]

Kitaristi0,

I think you need to bet on the turn. If the raiser was shooting for the low and had nothing else going for him than the K is pretty useless. I don't think there's much chance he's going to bet it through.

I think flop you re-raise and try to get rid of low drawers or make them pay. It's a great flop for you in that a better high hand is not going to come up on the turn (unless an ace turns and someone has aces). So for someone to beat you high they will need runner-runner in all likelihood. Try to get rid of them now; or make them pay for the privilege.

I understand what you're doing on the turn, but I would bet again to get rid of low drawers/make them pay, and because I don't want to risk missing a big bet. If they give me the pot there, so be it.

[SteveY]

kitarist
do we care what the middle guy does? I think if i were to 3bet the flop i would want him to call. if he's going high then hes basically dead, and if hes going low then we want him in to add to our half of the pot. it looks we genereally want him in then.

so basically we generally want to keep the middle guy in. if we were to 3bet the flop, then i think its a judgment call of whehter or not he would fold. you are probably the best judge of that since i guess youd have some kind of read on him.

but you should bet the turn to sort of trap the middle guy. CRing the turn puts him in a tough spot and is likely to get rid of him. checkcalling just gets one bet from him if he decides to call, but you can achieve that by just betting in the first place.

ps if you do some twodimes it looks like if the third guy has a low draw on the flop, then there are more "low" outs against you so maybe its not so bad if you get rid of him, in which case a flop 3bet looks good.

Flop: KKxx in PLO8 is worth a limp, but UTG in LO8 I usually fold it. Although limping isnt terrible.
Flop: Bet and then re-raise. You have a vunerable hand, and a decent chance to protect it. Although there are no straight or flush possiblities, you will regret it when another low card comes and takes 1/2 the pot from you.
Turn: Bet. Get the low draws out. Now is not the time to play like a donk that watches too match World Poker Tour.
River: Fine.

[benwood]

Like Niss said.

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: KKxx in PLO8 is worth a limp, but UTG in LO8 I usually fold it. Although limping isnt terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's double-suited. Worth a play, generally.

[graarrg]

I like KKds a lot.. not a bad pf selection.

As for the flop, I 3-bet this.. this is probably one of the best flops (with two low cards) for KK. Likewise, I bet the turn. I've found that with quads, unless someone flopped middle set, checking gets you no action. Just "c-bet" and try to make those lows pay. You may have quad kings, but you don't have the other side of the pot.

pump pump pump.

edit: actually, it's one thing that really gets on my nerves in omaha... there are very few flush+ MONSTER hands that you can flop that will get you a lot of action. I get really frustrated playing flopped nut flushes, high quads, and nut full houses (in limit, not PL) because if you don't bet, you risk not protecting your hand against a low draw and losing value, and if you bet, everyone says "well f*** that" and folds.

[chaos]

I think the call preflop is fine if the game is generally loose and passive. You want a cheap flop with a few callers.

I think I would jam it on the flop. You have the nut high. Someone will have to hit both the turn and the river to beat your high. Make them and the low draws pay the maximum.

You must bet out on the turn. You can not give the low draws a free chance to win half the pot.

Betting out the river is correct.

[gergery]

preflop i would always play KKds when sidecards are not horrible.

flop call is fine so is raise. if low had come on turn instead then the preflop raise won't put you on hand like KK and you likely get to trap the others for more bets.

turn you must bet. ask yourself what his likely hand is to raise on flop. A23, A28 or A24 are far more likely than 88xx,33xx.

-g

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flop: KKxx in PLO8 is worth a limp, but UTG in LO8 I usually fold it. Although limping isnt terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's double-suited. Worth a play, generally.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didnt catch that. Thanks.

[Buzz]

kitaristi0 -
1st betting round: I like the hand as a starting hand. You limp. Fine

2nd betting round: You could re-raise or not but your exact holding (top set on the flop) is less obvious if you just call the raise. You call the raise. Fine.

[ QUOTE ]
But how do I continue on the turn? ..... Is betting out better?

[/ QUOTE ]

3rd betting round: You should bet to collect from the low draws and possible diamond draws. Your opponents cannot put you on quad kings if you do bet. A foolish opponent with a full house might even raise your bet and then you get three bets in on the turn.

If there had been no possibility of low, then I think checking and hoping for a bet from somebody behind you is the best way to play turned quads. But with two low cards on the board, I think you should bet the turned quad kings yourself.

4th betting round: Fine.

Buzz