Semibluff what to do with 86

[winky51]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t3055)
Button (t3655)
SB (t5150)
Hero (t1640)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t200, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t600) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t350</font>, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to t4950</font>, Hero ???

Buttton is normal player, a little weak tight.
BB is pretty decent. A little tricky and pushed me off some hands with his big stack all in. I thought long and hard about this hand.

What hands can he have and whats your action?

[ZBTHorton]

Uh...fold?

[jeffraider]

[ QUOTE ]
Uh...fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

EXCITING!!!

PS try semi-bluffing when you have a reasonable drawing hand.

[ZBTHorton]

I'm really not trying to be a smart-ass..but am I missing something on this hand?

[jeffraider]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm really not trying to be a smart-ass..but am I missing something on this hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

No sorry I was just kidding around because folding is like the absolute only possible move here.

[winky51]

On this flop what kind of hands is this guy check raising with?

Thats the real question I want to know here.

So take some time and answer the question and think about it instead of spewing crap.

He limped with a big pair 3 handed? no I dont think so.
He limped with a trash hand like 95 or 92?
He has T9? Why check raise and risk overs or giving the free card?
He has a set? Why check raise he is way ahead? Why not check call?

Please speculate? Tricky player, has pulled a few bluffs on players. Very aggressive. I am curiouse what hands would you do that with here?

[jeffraider]

He probably doesn't have a big pair.
He could easily have limped with 95s or 92s or whatever.
People check-raise with top pair all the time. Who cares if it's a good play or not, he could have done it.
He probably doesn't have a set.
He could very easily have a PP here like TT-33.

There's nothing to think about. You made a suspect (but not terrible) semi-bluff (more like outright though, you only have a gutshot) and he raised you all-in. Are you hoping he has 7-high? If he's got A-high then you could be as good as a 2:1 dog, which is your absolute best case. Any other case has you drawing very slim, so I don't see why you're so interested in this hand.

EDIT: I could make the same play he did with a set, two pair, a strong 9, a PP 66 or better, a 5 with a decent kicker, etc. Nothing you've got a ghost of a chance at liking, but I'm not the villain.

Why would you even consider calling here? Even if he is bluffing, you can hardly expect to be winning. You're hoping to call to 4 outs. If you want, we can add the 3 8s, but I doubt it. So, best case, you're a 2:1 dog drawing to a gutshot against a bluff. Against a pair higher than 8s, you're drawing to 4 outs. No real evaluation needed. Even if he shows you a 7 high bluff, you made the right decision.

[winky51]

Thanks. I just wanted to see someone else's perspective on this. Doesnt hurt to ask. I needed to see why the he would check raise because it didnt make sense to give 2 players a free card. I find I make more money betting (bluff or best hand).

[Vuron00]

Your only option is to fold.

He could have any 2 here. He's the big stack completing from the SB. With his chipstack, I'd complete with any 2 and look for an opportunity to take any pot. He might not have bet out because he was worried about the odd play from the Button limping in 4 handed. Once the button folded to your bet, he's free to bluff away knowing that you'd only call with a good hand because you're on the bubble.

He could have hit any part of this flop or nothing at all, but you still have to fold because you have even less and might be drawing to 4 outs.

[Snarf]

[ QUOTE ]
On this flop what kind of hands is this guy check raising with?

Thats the real question I want to know here.

So take some time and answer the question and think about it instead of spewing crap.

He limped with a big pair 3 handed? no I dont think so.
He limped with a trash hand like 95 or 92?
He has T9? Why check raise and risk overs or giving the free card?
He has a set? Why check raise he is way ahead? Why not check call?

Please speculate? Tricky player, has pulled a few bluffs on players. Very aggressive. I am curiouse what hands would you do that with here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I'll play along w/ya here...

So we're assuming that you DONT want comment on YOU hand or action here. (Check/fold this one baby.)

You're looking for a villain range?

I put him on four things:

a) Set
b) Blind Speical for two pair
c) TP
d) 34 of outside straight draw

but not in that order...

[danger_mouse]

What is the buy-in?

[winky51]

Makes sense.

[winky51]

$55

[curtains]

betting out the flop is a clear mistake IMO. I would never consider doing it, although checkraising allin is within reason.

[winky51]

Thanks for the answers. Just this hand really didnt compute in my head what he could have. So I wanted other opinions. Now I understand the reasons there there are tons of reasons for him to limp with any 2. And his move on the flop made sense, wait to see what the BUT will do.

And the reason for the semi-bluff? Ive been doing it at this table and doing it successfully so why stop when something works. Also I figured whats the chance the BUT has a 9.

Now I did consider this PF.

Since BUT was a predictable non tricky player, raise with good, call with mediocre, fold to raise and the big stack would have raised with a good hand there would it be concievable to PUSH there with that crap hand to win the pot right there? Consider the pot amount after pushing and player types. The big stack or the BUT called any all ins the whole tournament without premiums. A lot of times I don't follow my instincts and they end up beng right. My instincts told me to push them out of the pot because they both had weak holdings.

Hey look my questions might seem retarded at times but I don't fricken care. I want answers.

Better to ask and look dumb then not to ask and stay dumb.

[winky51]

hmm interesting. But they got me so covered they would call anyways if I check raised.