(Live) KQs in BB turns into a very interesting hand

Live 3/6

Reads
UTG: SUPER ULTRA tight preflop and passive overall. Haven't seen him put in a raise in 3 hours of play. From what he has showndown he has only been playing premium hands preflop. Just a total non agressive rock. He has a hard time letting go of pocket pairs it seems especially overpairs, Ive seen him call down with an overpairs when its obvious they are beat many many times.
UTG+1: New to the table, no reads. Does have sunglasses on though. Yes im serious.
Button: LAG total maniac. In the 2 hours he has been playing at my table he has probably raised every hand preflop (Yea i mean every hand)and continued with his agression all throughout every street.

Table Image
My table image is pretty agressive, Im on a pretty good run of cards and Ive been playing and taking down a lot of pots because the deck has hit me pretty good.

Preflop
UTG limps, UTG+1 limps, folded to CO who limps, Button raises, SB folds, I'm BB w/ K/images/graemlins/spade.gifQ/images/graemlins/spade.gif - I 3 bet trying to isolate the Button, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Button calls.

Flop
J/images/graemlins/spade.gif9/images/graemlins/spade.gifK/images/graemlins/club.gif
I check, UTG checks, UTG +1 checks, Button bets, I raise, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Button 3-bets, I cap, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Button calls.

Well then. Isolating the LAG didnt work ha. I have a lot of draws going into the turn, but I feel my Kings may not be good at this point.

The LAG doesnt really have me worried.

The rock UTG has me scared though, I put him on the following range of hands; AA, KK, AK, 99, JJ - 99, JJ, AK, and AA being the most probable. KK obviously being extremly unlikely, but possible none the less. Some people are going to say why not put him on KJs/KJo, my reasoning for not including this in his range of hands is the sure rockness of his play preflop, I just can't fathom him playing that hand UTG.

UTG+1 Im assuming is going to be on a draw here, just from his mannerisms throughout the hand and him yelling for a 7 or a Q to hit haha /images/graemlins/cool.gif So we can put him on 810 confidently.

My plan is to check the turn regardless, because Im very confident that the Button is going to fire. If my flush or straight hit I plan to raise, if a K hits im just calling because of UTG's range of hands I put him on, If a Q hits I'm calling becuase I have redraws to a FH and straight flush, any other cards im calling, becuase I can be fairly certain that UTG and UTG+1 are going to not raise.

Turn
K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
I check, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Button raises, I call, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds.

Hmmm. I got my king. UTG worries me still, he could have filled up or he may have me outkicked. The LAG is still of no real concern. UTG+1's play was very very odd, I don't think he has a clue as to what he is doing ha.

Ok time to place UTG on a range of hands again. I can rule out KK obviously. So his range of hands is still 99, JJ, AK, AA - Of these hands Im trailing all of them but AA. At the moment. Of course I still have outs, but none the less Im fearful.

River
J/images/graemlins/heart.gif
I bet, UTG calls, Button raises, I 3bet, UTG calls, Button folds face up showing 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif4/images/graemlins/club.gif.

Very interesting. I beat AA, 99 - Lose to JJ. Split with AK. I felt the chances of me having the best hand here are great enough to warrant jamming this river. And ideally getting some money from a beating UTG and a donating Button.

Results to follow later


So wow. One wierd hand.

My main concerns with this hand is the lack of agression I showed on the turn. And given my reads on UTG and the range of hands I put him on, was I incorrect to be jamming that flop, even though I had many outs? Also whats everyones play on the river?

Thanks in advance for the responses and happy holidays.

[hobbsmann]

I like preflop as your hand plays very well mutltiway and figures to have an EV edge against the field. On the flop I really don't understand checking because you lose soooo much when it gets checked through and plus by betting you will get raised enough allowing you to 3-bet. Come the turn, seriously wtf, bet. Train yourself to stop seeing monsters under the bed, there are so few hands that now beating you once the third K came. River plays itself.

I like the raise preflop, even if you don't isolate the button, you will expect to win with this hand more often than 20% of the time against four opponents. I also agree with capping the betting on the flop.. With top pair, 9 outs to the second nut flush, and 4 outs to the nut straight you are correct to jam this pot. The action on this turn is scary as you may be drawing nearly dead against a made full house, but due to the size of the pot I think you were correct in calling. The river is a great card for you giving you the second nuts, but I know its scary thinking someone might have JJ, however I think you are correct to raise this. Did the button really fold here after all this and getting around 32:1 to call?????

PS.. do you play at the Soaring Eagle by chance?

Hobbs,

Your right about the flop. By leading into the super LAG, I can trap the calling stations for additional bets. Thanks for pointing that out.

With my action on the turn, with the range of hands I put UTG on how can you advocate leading and betting? When its very likely I am drawing very slim here. I have top set yes, but Im trailing any hand in UTGs range but AA? Do the few outs I have if I am behind at this point make it ok for me to give more action on this turn?

Gobucks, yea I play at Soaring Eagle very regularly. This hand occured elsewhere though.

Yeah I think that you could push the turn here.

I don't think you can assume that UTG has the AK. Even if he does, he clearly isn't going to raise any time soon. So you might as well bet for value.

[pauliewalnuts]

Tough beat for button. You rivered a FH on him.

[silkyslim]

pf is fine with a suited hand. Isolating is kind of iffy with limpers and the pot being big, and you are out of position, but 3 betting a LAG with KQs is still ok. The flop, your hand is a monster. 2nd flush draw, gutshot, and top pair good kicker. I would bet out hoping the maniac would raise and then 3 bet. you want to build the pot and plus you were in control pf and it would be a disaster if it were checked through, although unlikely. On the turn you also missed value. I would bet out again. given that you checked i would 3-bet. you have an even better hand now and probably have everyone drawing. charge them with 2 big bets. ya go nuts on river.

[Niediam]

You can't protect your hand on the flop with a checkraise. The pot is so big everybody still has odds to call with a 4+ out draw.

Stop playing scared.

[shant]

This is one of those hands that had it been online I would have just held down the bet/raise button and hoped lots of bets went in on all streets. I think you checked way too much.

[ QUOTE ]
bet/raise button

[/ QUOTE ]

[Nick Royale]

I don't understand the preflop raise. Your range of hands on UTG seems to be something like AA-88/AK/AQ/KQs. Do you really think you'll get him to fold any of these? Maybe AQ and KQs but that's it. I think the preflop raise is terrible unless you have some extra information to back it up with.

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 64.4964 % 62.08% 02.41% { 88+, AQs+, KQs, AQo+ }
Hand 2: 35.5036 % 33.09% 02.41% { KsQs }


If he's really in love with PPs (unlikely imo):

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 59.2667 % 57.61% 01.65% { 22+, AQs+, KQs, AQo+ }
Hand 2: 40.7333 % 39.08% 01.65% { KsQs }

Thats why i asked about the PF raise, after I made it, I was like that seemed somewhat stupid, becuase im just raising into a rockish player whom likley may have me dominated and he is coming along about 60 percent of the time and Ill be out of posistion throughout the hand.

My rationale was I know he is going to just check/call no matter what throughout the hand if he gets a piece of the flop. And with my raise I was hoping to get him to fold AQs/AQo, 88-22, and AJ-AT. Also, it was for information allowing me to get a more narrow and acurate range of hands to put him on. When he calls the PF raise by me, I can eliminate the above mentioned hands from his range and help place him on a hand more accuratly.

Your right though in that situation with two players to act behind me three betting probably isnt the best situation PF there. Thanks for the inpput.

I still just can't see why everyone is advocating to jam this pot whenever possible.

Checkraising the flop was a mistake. I probably should have lead out there and then raised the maniac if he raised me, which was likely especially with the rock calling station to act after me. This would have allowed me to trap UTG and UTG+1 for more bets. I see my error in my ways here, but the flop still got jammed so no harm no foul right haha.

My thinking at this point was that I am probably behind UTG going into the Turn but im willing to jam this flop becuase I have a lot of outs, some cleaner then others obviously.

Do I just need to jam this pot here becuase I need to extract value from Button and UTG+1? Does the potential of getting money from them outweigh the fact that I am likely dominated by UTG?

With the range of hands UTG is on in this situation how can pumping up the turn be correct? I am either drawing near dead to his made FH, or dominated by his AK a vast majority of the time more then I am ahead. On the turn I can only be ahead if he has AA and nothing else, yet everyone says I should still be raising?

I don't know, Im just having a really tough time with that haha. I guess Im just too passive post flop inherently heh. Everyones input so far has been pretty valuable and much appreciated. Thanks a lot.

For the results; UTG had AK and we split the pot.

[Fryguy]

Why aren't we betting this flop? This is a great flop for us, and we had preflop aggression, I see no need to get fancy with this here out of position.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
Why aren't we betting this flop? This is a great flop for us, and we had preflop aggression, I see no need to get fancy with this here out of position.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is something that OP has to stand for. Obviously betting out will be better the vast majority of the time here, but if he has a read that says button will bet 99% of the when he checks I ain't gonna argue...

[ebranig]

[ QUOTE ]
Live 3/6

I 3 bet trying to isolate the Button

[/ QUOTE ]

This will work <1% of the time at 3/6 and you'll be OOP. The reason to three bet is you have a big suited hand that plays well in a multiway pot-- build it.