yes, i'm a cheapskate....my low-roller's idea

[microlimitaddict]

an extremely trivial matter i suspect....or maybe not. and one that has probably come up previously so forgive me if i am producing a re-run.

soon i should be gainfully employed as a BJ dealer in Tunica (working at a casino without a poker-room).
obviously, I will also be spending some time at the poker-tables at the Shoe and Strike before or after my shift on occasion (along with some of those daily tourneys).

i likely will not be playing many marathon sessions when i hit the ring-games. probably just 1 or 2 hours following my 8-hour BJ shift before heading home (or to work I guess).

i suspect this could increase my winnings per hour played because of the rule at the low-roller tables that one can join the game AFTER the blinds have passed.

instead of an expectation of 1 to 1 1/2BB per hour i am guessing i would be closer to 2 to 2 1/2 BB/hr if I only play an hour each time (basically getting almost 4 full orbits for the price of 3...or 3 for 2 or something like that).

not that i would try this...but i'm curious if the strategy is any different if i just wanted to leave after 8 hands every time...joining after the blinds and leaving right before the blinds.
since this player is essentially playing for me i would think that ultra-tighter-than-usual play would be called for

one won't get very rich doing it this way...but the percentages sure look pretty to me. i think some of the old geezers i've seen around are potentially implementing this method. probably doesn't make the managers very happy.

[lefty rosen]

Do you roll your pennies and collect beer bottles too..... Actually that's just using your head, but I remember getting hassled by schill because I would do the same thing when it came for posting the dead blind, if I left the table to eat or goto the can or just rest, the table would be six handed and they would want me to surrender the half bet when since the table wasn't full I could just re-post on the blind or re-enter the game.......

[bernie]

wont work. the longrun is the long run whether you get there 1 hour at a time or 8 hours at a time. the blinds passing you isnt what ups the win rate. the rake is what will affect it. and you cant cheat the rake out of any pots you win.

also, your bad streaks could last quite a bit longer since it will take longer for it to even out.

nice try though...

b

[microlimitaddict]

yes, i understand the concept of the long-run....but the rakes AND the blinds are both factors.

clearly playing 1 or 2 orbits at a time maximizes the effect of dodging the blind in the first go-around. if i sat there for 20 hours and played 90 consecutive orbits then the effect of not having to post in that first orbit is minimized. afterall, there is a reason most of us don't get up to leave until immediately before having to post.

what if player A plays 8 hands every-day, never-ever paying the blinds (always starting after the blinds have passed....and always leaving before having to post)?
player B, on the other hand, plays 12 hands every-day...he always starts when it's his turn to post the BB....and always leaves immediately after posting both blinds.

under your argument, since the rakes are the only factor, there should be no difference.
however, in a 4-8 game, player A pays $0 to see 8 hands while player B pays $12 to see 12 hands.
of course, player A would soon draw the ire of the other fellow players and potentially the poker-room manager.

this is the general idea behind the concept.

it seems clear that an hour of play that includes just one orbit without posting is more profitable than an hour of play having to post every orbit (your 2nd hour at the table for example).
i would say the difference is roughly $6 on a 4-8 game (although it should be a little less because you only get 8 hands on the free orbit, not 10).

i hope this clears up my argument a little bit.

[NoChance]

The card room I play at gives you the choice to either come in at the BB or come in at any position but pay a BB. I think most internet sites work that way also. This elimiates people playing for free.

Also, where I play the state only allows them to have 30 tables in the room. Because Hold Em has recently become so popular, the tables are almost constantly full. This means there is usually a wait when wanting to get on a table. Sometimes the wait is 2 minutes. Sometimes the wait is 1 hour (Friday and Saturday evenings).

Now that I have explained my situation, I can tell you I recently went on a business trip and played at Casino Arizona for 5 days. I was very surprised that you could enter the game for free. This was new to me. It was wierd to see people waiting until after the blinds had passed instead of people waiting for the blinds to arrive. I would think more card rooms would lean towards making a player pay a blind to enter the game. If you have a situation where you don't have to then I see your idea can work. However, I doubt is worth the hassle and the reputation the other will put on you. It is not a reputation I would like to have.

MHO

[microlimitaddict]

the reputation was a concern of mine as well. that's why i thought playing for an hour and actually postin a couple of blinds would be acceptable.
i think some of the old-timers that mill about take advantage of this and will even table-hop a little.

normally i would agree with you that it's not worth the hassle and won't get you any big money (obviously). but i am curious about the +EV associated with this style and if hand-selection should be adjusted (may play a little tighter, especially since i may not be familiar with many of the players and won't be around long enough to know).the aspect of whether or not it's worth the hassle is addressed by the fact that it would be my preferred way to play anyway since i will be down in the area frequently (as a dealer) and will not have as much interest in heading down there on my days off for a 4-6 hour session.
in other words, i would probably be doing some of this even if i did have to wait for the blinds or post out of turn (as is the case on any of the higher limit tables)...so i was basically curious what some of the experts thought about the advantage in the play.
hey, if they're laying down the rules...it's up to me to take advantage of them, right???

[bernie]

you forgot something. your idea is figuring that you always will lose your blind hand. youre not figuring in the times you win with a blind hand. that can kind of offset the price of the blinds.

one nice big pot pays for a lot of blinds.

b

[southerndog]

Don't they force you to post a big blind when you sit down? If this isn't the case, then it is a wise strategy. You don't have to pay for junk. I suppose you would have to investigate the winning % of the big and small blinds though.

[Aragorn]

Figure it this way. The "cost" of your blinds is around half the amount you put up. If you are in a $2/$4 game and have to post $3 in blinds per hour, you are aaving around $1.50 or .375 big bets. On the other hand you are missing two hands. If you make a big bet per hour this costs you around .7 bets, so this means you are really saving around 0.3 big bets per hour.

On the other hand, unless you can always get a seat quickly, the cost of your waiting time in playing a lot of short sessions probably costs you more than your are making this way.

All this assumes you are a winning player. If you are not you have a HUGE money-saving opportunity.

[34TheTruth34]

Your wacky idea could definitely work. If you never had to pay the blinds you could wait for AA and only play that hand and fold all the rest. You're guaranteed to win money in the long run.

However, at 8 hands per session, it would take probably about 35 years to make any significant amount of money. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[rkiray]

I just did some playing around in pokerstat and my online win rate would go from 2.11BB/hr. to 3.05 if I never had to play the blinds. I assume what he is saying here is when he sits down he doesn't have to post ( it works that way in Colorado and I seen it a few other places with low limits) so if he comes in the co and he only plays two or three rounds he is getting a discount. If he did this 3 or 4 times a week over a year I think it could make an impact.