Heckled after KTs hits hard

Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif 10/images/graemlins/club.gif
Villain is BB 30/2/0.5 after 150 hands from previous sessions, Heckler is 48/3/0.5 after 50 something hands.
CO just sat down and is on a blind.

Preflop:
5 Folds to CO, CO checks, Button calls, Hero Calls, Villain Checks.

Flop:
Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif
Hero Bets, Villain Raises, CO and Button Fold, Hero 3-Bets, Villain Calls

Turn:
7/images/graemlins/club.gif
Hero Bets, Villain Calls

River:
3/images/graemlins/club.gif
Hero Bets, Villain Raises, Hero 3-Bets, Villain Calls with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (No reason to hide results, I had the nuts for 13BB)

Heckler: You got lucky
Hero: Who are you kidding? I had like 20 outs on the flop
Hecker: No way you could have 20 outs..
Hero: No I was exaggerating a little...checks PT...it was really only 12.

I love people that don't know what the hell they are talking about /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I also love having 12 outs on the flop, 11 of them nuts. I still like the 3-bet on the flop. Villain has shown they know where the preflop raise button is on monsters, so I am confident I'm not against AA or QQ here. I just feel the villain is unlikely to improve and if I improve I'm dominating.

[shant]

I don't think 3-betting this OOP and HU does anything for you. Also, never argue with table coaches or explain how many outs you had.

[Shillx]

Too much hand not to raise preflop here. The flop 3-bet is meh and is close either way. You will be doing a lot of 3-betting here, so mixing in a big draw might help you in the long run. It might also get you more implied odds, but this concept is more applicable to pots with lots of players in them. The extra implied odds you get here are far less then they would be in a 5 way pot (not to mention the value straight away).

[RustyCJ]

*grunch*

flop - i don't like 3-betting here, you're OOP and HU now.

turn - with the way it was played and with villian's aggression on the flop, I would probably try for a c/r here. If he has any brains at all it's difficult for him to put you on a flush draw with the way you played it.

[RustyCJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Too much hand not to raise preflop here.

[/ QUOTE ]

this surprised me, should this be a raise because of the poster and the BB and then just a weak call by the button?

what if you had a situation where folded to MP2 who limps, then button limps, are you still raising this hand from the SB?

[HouseCalls]

Don't 3 bet the flop otherwise the hand is fine....
The post hand chat is where the mistake is - if villain wants to think your a lucky fish let him. Try this:

Heckler: You got lucky.
Hero: Any 2 cards can win baby!

or maybe

Heckler: You got lucky.
Hero: No way, I always make my flushes on Saturdays!

I love the second look at this.

Preflop I missed the CO being on a blind until after I checked the hand. I like the idea of PFR now. The flop 3-bet is more than likely a mistake; what is it accomplishing? It put the villain on the defensive when I wanted her aggressive if I hit. After the flush hit I didn't even think to C/R, though the villain doesn't go aggresive here until she hit her 8 flush. I don't know that I could have gotten more bets out of this, but I was in no position to make the reraise. After the fact I questioned it because I was HU, but would have missed the positional implications if I hadn't posted. Most important of all, it reminds me to play the jackass or STFU when someone knows it all. Correct table talk will either chase out nervous players or make bad players smarter. Thanks for the inputs as always.

[kiemo]

[ QUOTE ]


Heckler: You got lucky
Hero: KT is my lucky hand



[/ QUOTE ]

I changed the conversation for you.

Why the heck would you ever talk about how many outs you had on a table. Much less correct yourself.

Raise preflop.
Dont 3-bet flop when HU. One more caller and then you can 3-bet.
Check raise turn. Leading out here usually puts villain into call down mode and you miss out on 1BB

Preflop is probably a very thin decision on calling vs raising though.

[USDaniels]

[ QUOTE ]

Heckler: You got lucky
Hero: Who are you kidding? I had like 20 outs on the flop
Hecker: No way you could have 20 outs..
Hero: Take your shoes off and count it out, Jethro.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously though:
Player Chat = off

[HouseCalls]

Just found This Thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4185863&page=0&fpart=all &vc=1) in a recent SSHUSH Digest that applies here.

[elitegimp]

I count 14 outs, not just 12 -- eight clubs (since the 8 is in Villians hand), three Jacks (already counted the club), and three Kings (since Villian only had a pair of Qs). And what were you refering to when you said "11 of them nuts"? You have the nut flush draw and the nut straight draw... clearly the three Ks wouldn't give you the nuts, but you didn't seem to count them; your 11 other outs would.

How about a preflop raise?

[bozlax]

Why are these posts always the same? I over-played my hand, somebody called me on it, and I argued with them at the table. Yuck.

Preflop: raise this! You've got a poster and a weak call from the Button.

Flop: 3-betting is useless...there's no value, your "feel" to the contrary notwithstanding, because YOU'RE not likely enough to improve (against his ace-rag, A9 you're really in a world of shi7) to be putting 50% of the money in.

Turn: if you hadn't 3-bet the flop like a turd you could have c/r'd and gotten an extra bet in here. Nice playing.

River: your stats for Villan are WAY off...either that or he was tilting.

[ QUOTE ]
I love people that don't know what the hell they are talking about

[/ QUOTE ]

Self-love is a wonderful thing, but sometimes you can take it too far.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Heckler: You got lucky
Hero: Who are you kidding? I had like 20 outs on the flop
Hecker: No way you could have 20 outs..
Hero: Take your shoes off and count it out, Jethro.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously though:
Player Chat = off

[/ QUOTE ]

I never turn off chat. It's a great chance to get reads on people. Why you would deny yourself that is beyond me.

But, when someone tells me "You got lucky" I usually respond with "???" or "lol" and watch them tilt. Funny thing is I had almost this exact same thing happen the other day when I hit the nut flush on the turn. Of course he tilted and I busted him out with his all-in the next hand.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
turn - with the way it was played and with villian's aggression on the flop, I would probably try for a c/r here.


[/ QUOTE ]

Rusty, Hero 3-bet and was called on the flop. A c/r is going to work here, uh, never.

[ QUOTE ]
Hero: No I was exaggerating a little...checks PT...it was really only 12.


[/ QUOTE ]

You have to check PT for how many outs you have? Haha.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
After the fact I questioned it because I was HU, but would have missed the positional implications if I hadn't posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

The bigger problem is that you're HU. You can still play aggressively OOP if you have a read that your opponent(s) is weak-tight and might fold the turn for one more bet, but since that isn't your read, you don't have enough equity to make this 3-bet.

[USDaniels]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Heckler: You got lucky
Hero: Who are you kidding? I had like 20 outs on the flop
Hecker: No way you could have 20 outs..
Hero: Take your shoes off and count it out, Jethro.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously though:
Player Chat = off

[/ QUOTE ]

I never turn off chat. It's a great chance to get reads on people. Why you would deny yourself that is beyond me.

But, when someone tells me "You got lucky" I usually respond with "???" or "lol" and watch them tilt. Funny thing is I had almost this exact same thing happen the other day when I hit the nut flush on the turn. Of course he tilted and I busted him out with his all-in the next hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very valid point. I actually go back and forth (but I play nanos and I find it just distracts and annoys me more than helps). However, I think if you are going to get sucked into a conversation like the original post, turning it off might be best.

[12AX7]

Ummm... does this mean Poker Tracker tells you your outs in real time?

[ QUOTE ]

Hero: No I was exaggerating a little...checks PT...it was really only 12.



[/ QUOTE ]

[bisonbison]

Raise preflop. There is nothing interesting about this hand postflop. Don't talk outs at the table.