turn raise with underpair

[geormiet]

4 handed 30/60 on pokerstars.

info on villian - he seems to mix passive play with stupid bluffing. I have seen him 3 bet a LAG with KTo and bet it unimproved through the river. He has also check called flop and check fold turn vs. pf raisers on low boards, and played TT very passively on an AA5 board (checking behind turn and river).

The hand in question:

I raise 3c3d in the co, villian 3 bets the sb. Flop is 756 with two clubs.

villian bets, I call.

Turn is an offsuit J. Villian bets, I raise, villian 3 bets, i call.

River is a Q, villian bets, I fold.

[Alobar]

I dont like the turn raise, because you dont want him folding a worse hand (hell never fold a better one), and you have to call his 3 bet

[mike l.]

you played this hand perfectly. what was your question?

[mike l.]

"you dont want him folding a worse hand"

so you dont want him folding KT here? yes you do. plus meta game the turn raise might keep him from randomizing and bluffing/value betting comfortably against hero.

[Lmn55d]

you only want him folding KT if he won't bluff the river with it

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre> info on villian - he seems to mix passive play with stupid bluffing. I have seen him 3 bet a LAG with KTo and bet it unimproved through the river.</pre><hr />

I don't like turn raise either for the reasons alobar mentioned. If you think he can fold a better hand then that changes things a lot.

I dont understand why you called the turn 3 bet and then folded the river. This seems illogical. Since you dont have the odds to draw to your 2 outer if youre behind, by calling the turn 3 bet you must think there is a decent chance you have the best hand, which means you should call that river. Against many opponents folding to that 3 bet would be easy, and against others, calling down after getting 3 bet would be easy. I cant think of a situation where I would call the 3 bet on the turn and then fold the river. Please explain to me the logic of your play here, I think I may be missing something.

[ QUOTE ]
I dont understand why you called the turn 3 bet and then folded the river. This seems illogical. Since you dont have the odds to draw to your 2 outer if youre behind, by calling the turn 3 bet you must think there is a decent chance you have the best hand, which means you should call that river. Against many opponents folding to that 3 bet would be easy, and against others, calling down after getting 3 bet would be easy. I cant think of a situation where I would call the 3 bet on the turn and then fold the river. Please explain to me the logic of your play here, I think I may be missing something.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly

[DMBFan23]

he's got what appears to be a very clean gutshot draw on the turn

[Lmn55d]

and set outs that are often good

[DMBFan23]

absolutely...I should have been more explicit, I was responding that we're not drawing to ONLY a 2 outer. we have something on the order of 1.8 + 3.8 outs

[mike l.]

wow you guys are having some problems here.

hero calls the turn 3 bet because he usually has 6 outs. 4 to the gutter and 2 to make a set. he folds the river because even random aggros dont 3 bet preflop and then 3 bet the turn without an overpair. this hand is pretty simple and if anyone is struggling with it they need to spend more time thinking about all the aspects of why geormiet's play is good.

[ QUOTE ]
wow you guys are having some problems here.

hero calls the turn 3 bet because he usually has 6 outs. 4 to the gutter and 2 to make a set. he folds the river because even random aggros dont 3 bet preflop and then 3 bet the turn without an overpair. this hand is pretty simple and if anyone is struggling with it they need to spend more time thinking about all the aspects of why geormiet's play is good.

[/ QUOTE ]
oops, I didnt see that the hero has 6 outs, my bad, it all makes sense now. I knew there was something I was missing.