Overplayed JJ? FullTilt 16K ($24+2)

[tshak]

Sorry for the hand format, anyone know of a converter that support FullTilt? No reads as I was recently moved a couple of hands ago.

Table 53 - 150/300 Ante 25

Seat 1: norse2124 (5,250)
Seat 2: Quibbler (12,185)
Seat 3: outlaw racer (5,910)
Seat 4: JD2414 (3,070)
Seat 5: MW_Dailey (6,290)
Seat 6: tshak (14,110)
Seat 7: iamaebayjunky (11,875)
Seat 8: ChimpAndaChair (9,015)
Seat 9: clingfree (10,680)
ChimpAndaChair posts the small blind of 150
clingfree posts the big blind of 300
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to tshak [Jc Jh]
norse2124 calls 300
Quibbler folds
outlaw racer folds
JD2414 calls 300
MW_Dailey folds
tshak raises to 1,275
iamaebayjunky folds
ChimpAndaChair folds
clingfree calls 975
norse2124 raises to 5,225, and is all in
JD2414 folds
tshak pushes...

First I will answer my own question - yes I did overplay JJ because I turbopushed without much thought. But let's assume I'm not a donk and actually thought about the hand. Villian's line is a pretty standard AA/KK. However, at this level I see limp-pushes with all kinds of wierd hands. Sometimes 88+ from the "it's a coinflip" types, sometimes AK, sometimes even AQ. The pot is huge and I'm getting better than 2:1 on my money. On the flipside, sure I've seen this behavior, but this is a bit later in the tourney. Maybe Villian's standard range is closer to QQ+ 90% of the time allowing me to confidently fold. I'm also not closing the action. Thoughts?

[ansky451]

His line is not a "standard" play for AA or KK. He has a pretty wide range here, one which JJ is certainly ahead of. You're being results oriented here because he actually did have AA or KK im assuming. If you were to fold this, I'd say thats the poker equivilant of burning money.

[whiskeytown]

I hate check/reraises from UTG -

given the quality of my hand and the fact you have a caller, you could be facing a squeeze player, but with 4000 more to go and the probability of ANY hand here you may have to side with a crying call -

How far are you from the money, BTW? - You have an average stack right now for the cash - this guy doesn't need to gamble, so a push looks suspicious, but the fact it was check/raised is cause for concern too...

I'd PROBABLY let it go ... I almost never see a check-raise preflop, esp. UTG, that isn't A's or K's - I need reads on the players but given the reads you just listed, you got 14K in chips and plenty of time to donk off more chips - save 4K and fold.

RB

[ansky451]

[ QUOTE ]
I almost never see a check-raise preflop, esp. UTG, that isn't A's or K's

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you play poker?

[ QUOTE ]
I almost never see a check-raise preflop, esp. UTG, that isn't A's or K's

[/ QUOTE ]

Many times it's just the combination of the two.

Why would Villain limp A's or K's UTG? If the table was very aggressive and there was a PFR almost every round it's possible but otherwise you're just inviting ppl to crack your big hand.

I think you're most likely a small favorite over his range. Call and start loving money again.

[cferejohn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I almost never see a check-raise preflop, esp. UTG, that isn't A's or K's

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you play poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

I play primarily $100 SnGs at Party, and this is AA/KK a vast majority of the time I've seen it there, with some AK thrown in now and then.

[cferejohn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I almost never see a check-raise preflop, esp. UTG, that isn't A's or K's

[/ QUOTE ]

Many times it's just the combination of the two.

Why would Villain limp A's or K's UTG? If the table was very aggressive and there was a PFR almost every round it's possible but otherwise you're just inviting ppl to crack your big hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

Because he isn't very good? Seriously, people get over tricky with AA/KK all the damn time, and the limp reraise push with one of these hands is pretty common...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I almost never see a check-raise preflop, esp. UTG, that isn't A's or K's

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you play poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to know the same! I'd love to find a site where I can check preflop. I may actually have a shot at a site like that /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Sam T.]

Yeah, it stinks of a monster, but we tend to forget all the times that some moron tries this with 55 or AQ, and remember the times we made this call with TT and felt silly as a result.

I'm not happy about calling, but I do it pretty close to every time. If he does have AA or KK, I flop quads just to teach him a lesson.

I would tend to agree, but I think it's hard choice. What make's me nervous is the size of Villian's stack. If I had something marginal and was in Villian's shoes, I push. I want to steal the blinds so I get another orbit plus some ante's or I want very few callers.

Villian has the 2nd smallest stack and limps. To me, that means I am getting suspicious that he wants more money in the pot in before he pushes. Hero raises and BB calls. Now if I am holding something marginal in Villian's shoes, and I have some skill (so I know my opponents will be leery of my UTG limp) I would have to start contemplating getting out of the hand in serious manner.

Now, I am not saying fold, but I don't necessarily see folding as a mistake either.

The same hand happened to me the other day when the villain had AQs against my jacks and my jacks held up. This is NOT always Aces and Kings. I have to agree with Ansky, you shouldn't fold this, it is burning money.

[Art Vandelay]

Without any reads I don't know that you can give him a "standard" AA/KK line. I agree with Ansky, we are in good shape against his likely range of hands and a call is in order.

[tshak]

Thanks for all of the replies. I think the key in this hand was the lack of reads and pot odds. I agree that there's no way I can put Villian on exactly AA/KK. Even if Villian's range is KK+/AK then it's still profitable. For the sake of argument though I'm not convinced that Villian's range is much wider than this often enough to call if I was getting worse odds (say 1.4:1). I'd have to know that Villian was a donk who played TT and AQ like monsters.

[chok1]

almost everytime im up against a limp raise of all in from 1st or second postion it's aa kk. it's tough to fold jj. but you still had bb to act behind you. you are in the middle of a squeeze play. what if bb reraised all in. I dont like the situation for jacks