$22 - A4o in the BB

[pergesu]

PartyPoker, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com (http://www.pregopoker.com/hhconv/convert)

CO (t972)
MP2 (t195)
MP1 (t900)
UTG+1 (t1675)
UTG (t1273)
Hero (t730)
SB (t1465)
Button (t790)

Preflop: Hero is in BB with 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, <font color="gray">CO folds</font>, Button calls t50, SB calls t25, Hero checks

Flop: (t150) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets t90</font>, Button calls t90, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>

Turn: (t330) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
<font color="red">Hero bets t225</font>, Button calls t225

River: (t780) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">Button bets t425 (All-in)</font>, <font color="red">Hero bets t365 (All-in)</font>

[bluefeet]

An Ace holder on the button just HAS to raise somewhere here doesn't he? On the FD flop? Only one that might not is a weak enough one, maybe getting you a chop. A number of thick-heads are pushing this river with less, assuming you gave up on your draw. Not exactly "standard", but I'd have a hard time putting him on an Ace (that beats me) as well on this turn. Not bad.

[bluefeet]

Just to add, a 2-pair is pushing you off on the turn certainly...making the "safe looking card" river call that much better.

[pergesu]

Well here's my reasoning on the hand:

I led the flop because it was draw heavy, and I don't give button limpers too much credit for an ace so I needed to protect my hand. Then when the turn comes I led again because it got even more draw heavy, he didn't pop me on the flop, so I'm probably best. If he just calls I know I'm almost certainly good, because if he has any made hand here is either raising to protect his hand or folding because he thinks he's beat. This lets me check-call a lot of hands on the river to pick off bluffs.

The main advantage I have with leading the flop and turn is that I think it's quite difficult to outplay me. He would really only raise a king or a ten if he thought I was on a flush draw, which is tough to put me on considering I led out twice. However if I check/call or it checks through, and then lead the turn, he could easily raise a king, and maybe a ten to protect against the flush draw. With that line I have no clue where I stand and end up laying down the best hand fairly often.

My only concern here is what I do if he pushes the turn. imo I think that means I'm beat, as he's going to raise any made hand here to protect it. As I said though, he'll have a tough time raising any hands that are worse than mine. However, I'm getting like 3-1 on a call..is that too much to give up, considering the chance that he could semi-bluff here?

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
Well here's my reasoning on the hand:

I led the flop because it was draw heavy, and I don't give button limpers too much credit for an ace so I needed to protect my hand. Then when the turn comes I led again because it got even more draw heavy, he didn't pop me on the flop, so I'm probably best. If he just calls I know I'm almost certainly good, because if he has any made hand here is either raising to protect his hand or folding because he thinks he's beat. This lets me check-call a lot of hands on the river to pick off bluffs.

The main advantage I have with leading the flop and turn is that I think it's quite difficult to outplay me. He would really only raise a king or a ten if he thought I was on a flush draw, which is tough to put me on considering I led out twice. However if I check/call or it checks through, and then lead the turn, he could easily raise a king, and maybe a ten to protect against the flush draw. With that line I have no clue where I stand and end up laying down the best hand fairly often.

My only concern here is what I do if he pushes the turn. imo I think that means I'm beat, as he's going to raise any made hand here to protect it. As I said though, he'll have a tough time raising any hands that are worse than mine. However, I'm getting like 3-1 on a call..is that too much to give up, considering the chance that he could semi-bluff here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh... no.

Once I am called on the flop, I am putting no more money in. Anything else is FPS.

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
Uh... no.

Once I am called on the flop, I am putting no more money in. Anything else is FPS.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if that's your position you end up laying down the best hand quite a bit..which is not a very good skill in this game.

Care to explain why you think it's fps? fwiw I've been told that a better line is to bet larger on the flop so that it's worthwhile for me to jam the turn...and I think I see why.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Uh... no.

Once I am called on the flop, I am putting no more money in. Anything else is FPS.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if that's your position you end up laying down the best hand quite a bit..which is not a very good skill in this game.

Care to explain why you think it's fps? fwiw I've been told that a better line is to bet larger on the flop so that it's worthwhile for me to jam the turn...and I think I see why.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, good players have zero problem laying down what might be the best hand. It's all about picking your spots.

Look at it this way... what you are way ahead of here?

Nothing. I thought so.

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, good players have zero problem laying down what might be the best hand. It's all about picking your spots.

[/ QUOTE ]
Bubble considerations aside, it's pretty bad to fold what is quite likely to be the best hand, particularly with only one card to come. That's what I'm dealing with here

[ QUOTE ]
Look at it this way... what you are way ahead of here?

[/ QUOTE ]
KQ/KJ/K9/QQ/JJ/QT/99-/flush draw...there are a bazillion hands I beat that he could call with

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, good players have zero problem laying down what might be the best hand. It's all about picking your spots.

[/ QUOTE ]
Bubble considerations aside, it's pretty bad to fold what is quite likely to be the best hand, particularly with only one card to come. That's what I'm dealing with here

[ QUOTE ]
Look at it this way... what you are way ahead of here?

[/ QUOTE ]
KQ/KJ/K9/QQ/JJ/QT/99-/flush draw...there are a bazillion hands I beat that he could call with

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, look.. it's late and I'm tired... but you got all your money in with a horsesht hand... so that's something to think about. I'm out.

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, good players have zero problem laying down what might be the best hand. It's all about picking your spots.

[/ QUOTE ]
Bubble considerations aside, it's pretty bad to fold what is quite likely to be the best hand, particularly with only one card to come. That's what I'm dealing with here

[ QUOTE ]
Look at it this way... what you are way ahead of here?

[/ QUOTE ]
KQ/KJ/K9/QQ/JJ/QT/99-/flush draw...there are a bazillion hands I beat that he could call with

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, look.. it's late and I'm tired... but you got all your money in with a horsesht hand... so that's something to think about. I'm out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, I judged my hand strength based on the action. He limped on the button, so I don't think he has an ace. This is made even more likely by the fact that he just called. So he's either gotta have a monster or jack [censored] (which includes a flush draw or smaller pair)...and like usual, this isn't the time to be afraid of monsters. I didn't just look at my hand and go "oh man A4 that sucks"

I'd really like to hear why you think my hand has little value...I think it rates to be the best a huge % of the time.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
He limped on the button, so I don't think he has an ace. This is made even more likely by the fact that he just called.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my opinion, this is your problem right here, esp. at the 22s. Not to mention there are plenty of other hands that crush you by the time you get to the river.

Now I'm really out.

[Bill Poker]

A6?
[ QUOTE ]

KQ/KJ/K9/QQ/JJ/QT/99-/flush draw


[/ QUOTE ]
QQ/JJ/99 would have raised preflop
KQ/KJ/K9/QT would have folded on flop, unless KQs/KJs, with which he would have reraised you on flop or pushed on turn.

Ax (x=2,3,4,5, 7,9) would just check behind on river if it is not folded preflop